Confused

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wdubin Posts : 49 Registered: 4/27/08
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 10:14 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

So what if she wants to do the whole "walking down the isle" thing?? That's her choice and shouldn't matter to others.

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 10:28 PM Go to message in response to: briony

Dear Briony,

" What some of us are expressing is what is likely to go through the minds of at least some of her invited guests when the invitation appears in their mailbox. "

Yes, exactly, precisely. Bingo.

People forget about the purpose of anonymous internet message board. You come to an anonymous message board to throw out an idea. You will get a mixed bag of honest responses, reflective of what your real life friends and family might be thinking.

Then, you make an informed decision.

Again, you are correct in that there is nothing wrong with a delayed reception. A couple could have a delayed reception, with is a regular party in regular party clothes. They can have anniversary parties past their first year of marriage, again, regular parties in regular party clothes. Some of the guests might give them modest gifts, as is customary between adults for anniversary or birthday parties.

I might bring a bottle of wine, some gourmet chocolate or a house plant. I would not spend a lot of money, not like I would for a wedding present.

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 10:34 PM Go to message in response to: wdubin

Dear WD,

"So what if she wants to do the whole "walking down the isle" thing?? That's her choice and shouldn't matter to others."

(rant)

AISLE. AISLE. AISLE.

(/rant)

It matters to others when those others are invited to attend, and when those others find it distasteful to see a married woman walk down the aisle to re-enact what happened months, or years, ago. It matters when the couple expect expensive gifts from those others, similar to gifts they would have received if this was actually their wedding.

It matters to others who just politely decline ("I'm sorry, but we have another committment that evening."), only to hear Boo hoo hoo you don't love me.

What other people do is their business. They can walk down the aisle 10 or 15 times for all I care. They can stage a wedding every year of their married life, for all I care. I start caring when it involves me, my time and my money.

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WoostaBride Posts : 220 Registered: 6/8/09
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 1:21 AM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Aunt,

That may matter to you, but I wouldn't assume the general public as a whole. To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less if someone decided to do this. So what? If I care enough about 2 people to attend their wedding it wouldn't matter to me how the hell they did it - once, twice, backwards....I wouldn't really give two shits. If it were someone's wedding that I really didn't know/care about, then again I wouldn't care how the hell they chose to do it. It just seems like waaaay too much wasted energy on trying to overanalyze the manner in which these people decide to celebrate their marriage. When I get an invite to a wedding, I take it for what it is and that's that. I show up, eat, drink, dance, give them a gift and go home. Case closed. Getting caught in the details is a waste of time. Really....who gives a crap? If they're happy, then they're happy....and that's ultimately what means something to me.

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 1:32 AM Go to message in response to: WoostaBride

And I'm in another ball park all together - or maybe not so much - BUT

I know those who LIED about being married. I think this is WRONG.

As for a 'second' wedding - because that is what it is - if I'm close enough to know what is going on or close enough to not care, I'm cool.

But I dislike the 'entitled' attitude. Either own what you are doing or DON'T do it.

 

 

 

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cyndi33 Posts : 2,585 Registered: 1/3/07
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 10:17 AM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

"As for a 'second' wedding - because that is what it is - if I'm close
enough to know what is going on or close enough to not care, I'm cool.

But I dislike the 'entitled' attitude. Either own what you are doing or
DON'T do it."


That describes my attitude about this perfectly, and much better than I did.

 Proud Member of P.O.O.P.,  People Offended by Offended People

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hljanes Posts : 57 Registered: 12/31/09
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 10:33 AM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

People forget about the purpose of anonymous internet message board. You
come to an anonymous message board to throw out an idea. You will get a
mixed bag of honest responses, reflective of what your real life
friends and family might be thinking.

Then, you make an informed decision.




I think the other thing to keep in mind, for anyone asking for advice on a wedding message board, is that the advice is going to be skewed because the people giving it know a lot about weddings and etiqutte. That's why they're giving it.

I'm not attacking anyone but do you honestly think that the average person knows that you're allowed to have a delayed reception up to one year after the wedding? I'd never even HEARD of a delayed reception until I came on these boards.

It's just like political primaries. They produce more extreme candidates because the people voting tend to be more politically extreme and active. You get answers commensurate with the level of knowledge of the people you're asking. You're probably getting answers that the general public wouldn't give, just so they don't know.

AOTB, a question for you. And I'm by no means attacking (or even arguing) your point. I'm just curious. I've seen you say before that the wedding gift is a way of returning the favor of being invited to the wedding, since you can no longer return the favor by inviting them to your wedding. So if they're inviting you to their renewal/second wedding/delayed reception (whatever you want to call it) why do you not feel the need to return the favor in the same dollar amount you would if it was the first, or the "real" wedding? Is it just that this time you're not witnessing the actual, original vows but a renewal?

And if couples that live together and have things they need can have a shower, why can a couple that is technically married, but may have very little (we don't know what the OP's household looks like) not have a shower?

As I said, I'm a newbie to this whole thing, and curious.

Heather

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Marryingmytruel... Posts : 135 Registered: 2/11/10
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 11:22 AM Go to message in response to: hljanes

KHicks,

You said that you are planning a wedding for September but you already had your wedding when you went to the courthouse. I would not set up a registry or have a bridal shower or anything like that. I would plan an anniversary party not a wedding.

Daisypath Wedding tickers

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 11:56 AM Go to message in response to: hljanes

Dear Heather,

Good questions.

"I'm not attacking anyone but do you honestly think that the average person knows that you're allowed to have a delayed reception up to one year after the wedding? I'd never even HEARD of a delayed reception until I came on these boards. "

When I was a child, my parents and my grandmother taught me the trivial details of etiquette. My grandmother was from the South, and in her world etiquette reigned supreme. She was the only, repeat, ONLY, divorced woman I have known in my entire life who used the "proper" form of address: Mrs MaidenName Married Name. Mrs Bouvier Simpson.

A lot of the stuff has fallen by the wayside. No one uses social calling cards any more, so there's no reason to know that you turn down the upper left corner to express one thing and turn down the lower right corner to mean something else. (I actually forgot which is which. One means leave-taking, the other means condolences.)

However, there are other etiquette issues that my grandmother never dreamed of. For example, it's considered poor "netiquette" to write a message in ALL CAPS. It's difficult to read and looks like you are shouting at the person.

Thus, I learned about delayed receptions as I grew up because, for whatever reason, various people here and there had delayed receptions and my parents explained that to me at the time.

". I've seen you say before that the wedding gift is a way of returning the favor of being invited to the wedding, since you can no longer return the favor by inviting them to your wedding. So if they're inviting you to their renewal/second wedding/delayed reception (whatever you want to call it) why do you not feel the need to return the favor in the same dollar amount you would if it was the first, or the "real" wedding?"

Because I have not been honored with being asked to witness the real, actual vows. I see a wedding-ish event that takes place after the real wedding to be something like an anniversary party. I CAN return the hospitality of a party. You invite me to your party; I invite you to my party. If I'm invited to your anniversary party, I might invite you to my Fouth of July blow-out.

A wedding is special. I am witnessing the vows the couple make, legally, one time only, and witnessing the formation of a new family. Weddings are public events, necessarily so to avoid some kind of "he said she said" confusion should the couple break up. Wedding vows are said before an officiant and before witnesses. It is an honor to be asked to be one of the witnesses. That special honor is reciprocated in a lavish (the best you can afford withing your budget) gift.

BTW, everyone's a witness, not just the people who sign the license. You can have 500 witnesses.

An anniversary party is nice, but not that high honor. I might bring a houseplant in a pretty pot to an anniversary party. Similarly, if later that year I have a "round" birthday and someone gives me a birthday party, you might bring me a balloon bouquet or just pick up the lunch tab.

" Is it just that this time you're not witnessing the actual, original vows but a renewal? "

Yes, exactly. Anyone can renew their vows, any time, any where, as often as they like. My father sits down for Thanksgiving dinner, prepared by my mother, and says "Honey, this looks great. I'm glad I married you!" My mother responds with "Thank you, darling, I'm glad I married you, too.".

Vow renewal? Should I run out and get them a new toaster to celebrate the occasion? Should I ask if they are registered and if my mother wants a bridal shower?

"And if couples that live together and have things they need can have a shower, why can a couple that is technically married, but may have very little (we don't know what the OP's household looks like) not have a shower? "

Because showers (baby and bridal) are for women changing their life situation drastically. Theoretically, a young woman moves out of her parents' house and has nothing by way of household equipment. A bridal shower gets her started on the way to equipping her house. A woman gets pregnant for the first time, and has no baby stuff. A baby shower starts her on the way to equipping her for the stork.

Second-time brides and second-time mothers are presumed to already have "stuff", so don't need a shower.

Already-married women are presumed to already have "stuff", so don't need a shower.

Having said that, I am a kind person and if I see a young couple struggling with little by way of furniture and kitchen equipment or if I see a young single person move out of their parents' house to an empty apartment, I will certainly take a few steps on my own to help these young people. I don't corral a bunch of people into a present-giving orgy, but instead look around my own house and think "Hmmm... I've wanted to get rid of that table, so I'll ask Joe and Mary if they might find it useful." Or, I might make it quietly known, amoung my friends, that I know a young, struggling couple that would really appreciate a helping hand.

In another situation, I was acquainted with a bride and her sister, the MOH. I love both girls, dearly, and am good friends with their parents. I knew for a fact that MOH, a single young woman, was unemployed, paying student loan debt, pinching every penny, and that she needed the expenses of MOH like she needed a hole in the head. I took her aside, telling no one, and gave her a substantial cash gift. She burst into tears!

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hljanes Posts : 57 Registered: 12/31/09
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 12:55 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

AOTB, Thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with your thoughts on the matter, but it's always nice to understand where people are coming from and the rationale for their thoughts.

I guess I just don't presume that a couple who married on their way to their new army post has everything they need to build a life together, just because they are married.

Heather

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 17, 2010 5:59 PM Go to message in response to: hljanes

Dear Heather,

I'll add another thought on the Delayed Reception situation.

In times past, travel was difficult, dangerous and expensive.

A couple would get married in the bride's home town, as the wedding was hosted by her parents. They would then travel to the groom's home town where his parents would host a second reception, so the bride could meet her new husband's family and friends.

It was easier to transport two young people for a second reception than to transport 100 (possibly elderly) people for the wedding.

All of us have different opinions. We read about other peoples' thoughts, then make informed decisions.

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WoostaBride Posts : 220 Registered: 6/8/09
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 18, 2010 6:20 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Aunt,

You have a lot of great information and make substantial points, however....
You reference the "past" a lot, and I find that this is my biggest problem overall with some of your views. It goes hand-in-hand with my beliefs about the bible; we are currently in 2010, and I think that it is important to take in the value of the changing times into consideration. There are new and different ways of doing things that I believe are more accepted in the world we live in today. While etiquette is all fine and dandy, and I do believe should be followed to a point, it's ok to veer off a bit and do things more unexpected. It's in part a generational thing, but I really do think it's important that people realize that the methods of the past need not necessarily be in effect today. Just my thoughts...

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 18, 2010 7:26 PM Go to message in response to: WoostaBride

dear WB,

But the basic issues still stand.

People don't like Entitlement Queens, not then, not now.

People don't like being treated like a human ATM, not then, not now.

Absolutely, things change. I'm a married woman who has her own last name. 34 years and I'm not "Mrs SomeoneElse".

I think that the Fake Wedding Crowd need to think about the message they are sending.

"We got married early, because we wanted to save money. (Cobra, military benefits, insurance, immigration, whatever) We did not invite you to that wedding because, well, just because it was more important to get the benefits than to have people like you witness our vows. Now we want a big do-over wedding where you will feel obligated to bring an expensive gift."

It's having your cake and eating it, too.

(Some come here and say "We aren't out for the gifts, we just want a party to celebrate with our friends and family." Totally OK. Have the party. Call it a Delayed Reception or a Anniversary Party. You'll get modest gifts from some, not all, of the attendees.)

You will most likely get a load of expensive gifts if you manage to arrange your life so that the people you invite to your wedding are actually witnessing the real wedding.

If you don't arrange your life that way, then be aware that some you invite to a fake wedding will feel insulted. Some. Not all. Some. Unfortunately, you can't predict who will have that reaction because they will be too polite to say "Think again, Entitlement Queen."

Some will say "I'm terribly sorry, but we have a prior engagement.", then drop the subject.

You might be a person who doesn't care if people think you are an Entitlement Queen. (I personally know one such young woman. She's proud of being spoiled.) In that case, go for it. Do what you want. Why come to an Etiquette wedding board for comments or advice?

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WoostaBride Posts : 220 Registered: 6/8/09
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 18, 2010 8:50 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

I wasn't referring to entitlement issues - I get that. I honestly don't think that's the case, or the problem.

"We got married early, because we wanted to save money. (Cobra, military benefits, insurance, immigration, whatever) We did not invite you to that wedding because, well, just because it was more important to get the benefits than to have people like you witness our vows. Now we want a big do-over wedding where you will feel obligated to bring an expensive gift."

I don't necessarily think that's how most people think. There's not always some dark ulterior bitchy motive behind choosing to do things that aren't necessarily steeped in etiquette. I just don't look that deeply into things that could matter less to me. Like I said before, if I care enough about someone to attend their wedding I could care less about the detailed circumstances. They could have gotten married 5 years ago for all I care. If they didn't have the opportunity to celebrate it and choose to do so now, well then that's just another excuse for me to have fun at a party!

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Confused
Posted: Mar 18, 2010 11:12 PM Go to message in response to: WoostaBride

Dear WB,

Sure, you're one of those who is OK with the fake wedding deal. Great, more power to you. I don't have a problem with that at all.

There are some, not all, some, who do have a problem with it. A person thinking of putting on a fake wedding can read this discussion and then make their own informed choice.

***

What kind of bugs me about "today's world" is that there are lots of people out there who cannot conceive of a formal party outside a wedding or the school prom. It is absolutely possible to host a formal party even if it's not a wedding nor a school prom. I can host a birthday party for my husband, and make it formal. I can host an anniversary party and make it formal. I can host a party to introduce people to my visiting cousin, the talented artist, and make it formal.

I think some people think in terms of a vow renewal fake wedding just because they have no concept of any other kind of formal event for any other reason. They are too old for another school prom, so...

I'm not picking on you, Woosta, but just making a general observation.

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