Hope this isn't controversial...

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5in3 Posts : 806 Registered: 8/15/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 12:03 PM Go to message in response to: Retired

I feel like putting in 2 cents here. 

I have to say I support our troops.  I know many people over there, and while the selfish part of me would like them home soon, so more of my friends and family will not have to fight in this war, I also talk to my friends and family over there, and I think we need to finish what we started in the best way possible.  Problem being I don't know what that way is precisly.  And I don't know if I ever will, with our media being what it is.  I don't believe we ever hear the real story.

My sister is in her First year at West Point, a military academy.  This basically means she has chosen a career in the military.  My sister was faced with the decision, does she apply for this school, knowing that she very well may be fighting in a war that she does not believe in, and her choice was yes.  Because in the end, she believes in our country.  Do we have dumbass presidents at times, yes. Do we make mistakes as a nation, yes. But at the heart of how this nation was founded is something good.  So I supported my sister in her decision, siding against our parents (they have since come around).

Do I believe we should have entered into this war?  Based on what I know, I don't think so.  Do I think we should pull everyone out? I don't know if I have the information to decide that.  Based on what the media says, hell yes.  Based on the first had accounts of what my friends who are over there fighting say, I don't know if we can yet.  Maybe soon, but according to them, our presence is still needed there.

So I probably have not done anything to add to this discussion.  Maybe I shed some light on a thought process, on how you can support something, but not agree with the decision.

 


Me, my honey and our kitty make 3.

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mdarcy Posts : 107 Registered: 2/8/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 12:31 PM Go to message in response to: TanisJ

Hello tanis,

A2s I said, in a previous post, I'm also Canadian, from Quebec. I will not pretend I can effectively say I support effectively american troups. However, I can say that the fact to support our troops or not has been an issue in quebec for the last year. The way the military works here, is that they mainly deploy soldiers from one unit at a time and last summer, about 2500 soldiers from Quebec were sent to Afganistan. Few soldiers compared to what America sends, i know, but that was enough soldiers to have a real debate about it.

And that's where it turns ugly. Maybe a month before the soldiers were sent, a few of them went to the Quebec parliament to represent all the soldiers that were about to leave. About 95% of the chamber members stood up and did an ovation, but about 4 or 5 of them remained seated on their fat asses to protest against the war. That's where they drew the line, they may be against this war, but to do that, was a huge lack of respect. 

That's why I can say by myself, without having the input the be american that it is not only possible, it is necessary to support the troops even if against the war. 

 

  

 

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MrsMcCain Posts : 580 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 1:02 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

BirdLover I think that your comment is controversial. For one thing military men and women do more than "carry a gun for a career" they volunteer and help out in crisis situations in our country, such as a natural disaster, and many other various tasks that help make our country safer everyday. I knew a lot of men in the army from when I was a waitress and a lot of them do support the war, maybe not the actual cause but a lot of them that have been overseas really feel like they are helping the citizens over in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I do think that it is possible to support troops without supporting the war, but please don't say that their career is "carrying a gun everday" that is not what it's about.

I think that it is really noble of ANYONE who is willing to serve your country, in good and bad, to do that

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 1:46 PM Go to message in response to: MrsMcCain

At the heart of Birdie's question, I think is a rather profound one:

Is it possible to support someone and not support what it is that they are doing?

Now, I'm sure the easy answer is, if they are serving our country, then that's all that matters.

But what if you don't think they are, in fact, serving our country?  Since I don't believe the Iraq war is serving the United States at all, then I can't say that the troops are, in fact, serving our country.

So what are they doing?  It seems to me that many (not all) are engaging in blind obedience to our President.  I'm not sure, though, that that is actually service. . .or something that I can say I support.

Just food for thought.


_______________________________________________________
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them”    - Albert Einstein

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futuremrsmason Posts : 239 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 1:53 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

1. I agree with Aunt! beautifully said and felt.

Turning it on you a bit, I wonder what you think of social workers...

We go into the profession of Child Welfare, or any other division, knowing that yes, we will have to be in situations which are unpleasant; yes, its highly likely we will have to remove a child from a home, etc... But that doesn't stop us. We do it anyway, because we believe in helping, believe in empowering, enough to make less that teachers with higher degrees than the afore said teachers.

While yes, that's a little different, I understand, its important to note that every soldier has different motives for enrolling in the armed forces, albeit to get free tuition(which is pretty sweet), to helping others (they do more than go to war. Soldiers are also utilized heavily in humanitarian efforts as well.)
And, maybe they relish the idea of blowing someone's head off... I don't know. Everyone has a different reason.

Military is a sacrifice, and being married into it is one of the greatest a woman or man can make. My best friend is recently married to a Marine, and he will be gone for weeks at a time. She stands the risk everyday of him being deployed, and waited for him while he was in Iraq. BOTH tours.

So, I guess that's about it. And I'm pretty sure that's what a majority of these posts are going to say... 

As far as "can you support someone without supporting their actions..." its almost a laugh to say that you can't, when we do it every day.
Throwing this out there ( and I am not homophobic, nor against the homosexual lifestyle, so please don't address that.) Wouldn't the majority of you agree that even if you didn't condone homosexual practice, you would still support the individual?
Or your daughter gets a tattoo. Without your permission. Yeah, it might piss you off if you don't like it, but that doesn't mean you love her any less.
To me, in relation with our troops, its the same difference.

And I wouldn't say its "blind obedience". Its a job, and you do your job. Regardless. Its called character.

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Message was edited by: futuremrsmason

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mandynos Posts : 36 Registered: 3/25/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 1:55 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I think that's what's so great about the US Military, it's optional to be in. However, My Brother In Law just recently got out of the Army, he was deployed in Iraq for almost 2 years, he had no choice but to go. He will tell you he hates the Military with a passion.

Many people in the military don't support the war. Some sign up just for free schooling/better job/better pay. I don't support the war but I would never sit at home and not support my brother in law for doing his job, or putting his life on the line for me my family and friends.

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mandynos Posts : 36 Registered: 3/25/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 1:59 PM Go to message in response to: mandynos

P.S. By saying supporting my brother in law, I mean all the soliders over seas and even in America.

Knowing they have people at home supporting them, and knowing that they have a home to return to could make it all that much easier for them.

I think  it's sad though, how many people end up with such psychological issues after returning from combat. The Military really needs to have better health care provided to those in the military and those who get out of the military.

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Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 2:07 PM Go to message in response to: mandynos

Mandy it's not always optional to be in the military....Think about vietnam, so many were drafted. And in fact when Bush started this war in Iraq my DH got a draft card in the mail as well. (he didn't get drafted....which wouldn't have matter because we would have left....there is no WAY he will join the military) But, my FIL is 20 years in the Special Forces in the Army, he thinks the war is BS, but it's his job (and he is one of the guys who wentin all the caves and such looking for Bin Laden) He loves his job and doing it, but dosen't believe in this war. Which I can say I don't blame him...I haven't agreed with it since the day we declaired it. But, I support all troops....they are doing thier job and I can not knock them for that, it isn't THEIR fault we are in this war It is the stupid ass presidents fault. So I choose to support the troops, not support the war and definatley not support Bush.

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futuremrsmason Posts : 239 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 2:17 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

" true heroes are the people who sacrifice their bodies, or their money, or their time, to do a job that is frequently understaffed, under-funded, or overlooked.  So that includes officers, teachers, social workers; doctors who work in inner-city ERs dealing with same gangbangers/drug overdosers day after day after day; community organizers who advocate on behalf of those who either can't, or won't help themselves."

You made me cry... That's lovely.

One of my Profs and two of my friends work at the VA (Veterans Affairs) as Counselor/Social Workers. And its tough.  I definitely couldn't do what they do.
One of the biggest issues these men are having, is that now we have all of these great ways to protect fighting soldiers, but we have no great way to protect their brain. There is a casualty which occurs (I can't remember the name off of the top of my head) but it had to do with the brain being damaged/shaken because its the one body part that cannot be adequately protected. They come back, and they will have the functionality of some one as young as 6 years old, and their families look at them, and see the same guy or girl, and can't understand what's going on with them... Just another thing to add to your list ;)
But, as someone privileged to see a homecoming of a soldier to his wife, it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen, and I think beautiful moments are important. Otherwise, we just get caught up in the ugly side of life...


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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 2:22 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

FMM its called _______ Brain Injury. I wanna say Traumatic but I dont think thats it. But maybe it is.  It's what Bob Woodward on ABC News had when he was over there reporting.

When he did his special, I cried most of the time. For him, and for the soldiers who's lives will never be the same. Bob miraculously came back, but for a while he didn't even know what a "hammer" was, for example. They showed other soldiers with this same injury who now live in hospitals and are cared for by their mothers and wives.  It really is heartbreaking.


Formerly Ama102707

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futuremrsmason Posts : 239 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 2:28 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

I think it might be TBI - Traumatic Brain Injury... Caused by explosions which jar the head...

I saw that same special... I have a tender heart (yeah, and I'm a social worker - yay for broken heart daily!). I cried, too.
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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 2:32 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

Ok then it must be TBI. Maybe they just refer to it as "TBI" but as Traumatic Brain Injury thats why it doesn't sound right to me!

Formerly Ama102707

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MissyF Posts : 275 Registered: 9/23/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 3:12 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

"I think a lot of people forget that WE, the people, have NO CLUE what goes on behind closed doors. We only hear the death tolls and the sad stories and the media blowing things out of proportion. I truly do think that the government at one time did have the country's best interest at heart, but now 4 yrs later, I think the situation needs to be re-evaluated and looked at differently."

Well-put, NJ4Life!

And yes, of course you can support the troops without supporting the war. It's happening in massive numbers every day. 


 

Woman to my man. Slave to my budget.

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BooBishaBride Posts : 120 Registered: 1/31/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 4:20 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

I think it is very possible to support the troops without supporting the war, in fact I think they need even more support during an unpopular war. 

As previously discussed people may have allot of reasons for joining the military including career goals, college, money, valor, etc. I have several friends in the military and openly don't support the war, but them and their personal decisions. 

Also, many people who join now, join to watch out for human rights violations. Such people do not support the war, but join exactly so they can make the best out of a bad situation and try to make sure the war is executed in the best way possible. I think that's pretty heroic. I just hope we get out of there soon as to minimize the lives lost and destroyed on both sides.   

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BoysMissLady Posts : 932 Registered: 1/18/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 5:22 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

MsDenuninani...you've hit the nail on the head!

I hear ppl say all the time, "they are serving our country."  But how?  We invaded Iraq...no WMD, no Twin Tower attacks, nothing it was all a bunch of lies for the US to go and get oil.  So, while I admire the troops for doing something I'd never do...I cannot agree with what they are doing.  I know for many, going to the military is their only choice.

During the Vietnam War ppl laughed in the faces of many American troops, especially those who were not Caucasian.  Why would you 'fight for freedom' in another country, when in your own you are a second-class citizen.  You can fight in a war, but cannot vote.  You cannot send your children to adequate schools.  That is very similar to what is going on today.  As much as we like to think it has, America has not changed that much.  The oldest, poorest, least educated, and sickest are still shunned...look at Hurricane Katrina.  Ppl get very angry when you state the truth.  Ppl get doubly angry when your question their thoughts, motives, and beliefs...BirdLover continue to ask your questions.  And those of us who are honest with ourselves about the screwed up status of this 'land of the free and home of the brave' will continue to answer.

Blessings!


Kiss 

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