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Hope this isn't controversial...

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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:56 AM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

One thing I don't understand is this: let's say you hate the war.  Hate it, hate it, hate it.  Fine.  I do too.  But when do some people treat the soldiers like crap when they come home?  So many soldiers hate the war too!  And even if they don't, it's not THEIR fault that the war is happening.

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MrsReno Posts : 314 Registered: 12/21/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 6:32 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

My FH is a former Marine and was still enlisted during 9/11. We both feel like was is crap and the troops need to come home.

We do support the troops though. I think the saying really isn't to support the war, I believe it is to support them for their patriotism and bravery. Even though they voluntarily joined the services, doesn't necessarily mean they signed up to just go to this (pointless) war.  


♥Defy Gravitry♥

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BoysMissLady Posts : 933 Registered: 1/18/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 9:19 AM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

Sweetie, I understand your passion on this subject.  And I do pray for your FH's safe return.  I pray for ALL the troops.

But I certainly and respectfully disagree that the troops are fighting for our freedom.  Unfortunately, 4,000+ troops who've lost their lives(not including those who have committed suicide b/c of PTSD, or those who are permanently handicapped), they are involded in a money struggle.  This war is about oil.  I work at the biggest oil company in the world.  I know the information we get daily.  I know who their money goes to.  It is a terribly hard pill to swallow.  If you remember the President had to admit that he lied...about everything.

I am close to the war.  I've had loved ones there, who've come back living and dead.  When you sign up to go to the military, you know that there is a possibility of war.  But these soliders deserve to know the truth, b/c believe me just as you say we are fed tidbits of information...so are they.  And yes, as a tax paying living breathing citizen I have a right to be outraged about fighting for oil when ppl were dying by the 1,000s in Darfur and 'we' refused to get involved.


Kiss 

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futuremrsmason Posts : 240 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 2:39 PM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

because my FH isn't over there...

I appreciate your heart, you're FH is very fortunate to have a Bride like you.

My friend's husband put it this way, "its to show we care about the freedoms. We may not like the actual war, we may hate having that gun in our hands which, he does, but when its all said and done we're not sitting back on our asses, but doing something about it. We want it to end just as much as the civilians do, and maybe even more so... Right now, its not just about our freedoms, but the freedoms of everyone. I know we're not fighting for everyone, but for a principal. And its worth it to me."
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DCTexan Posts : 170 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 3:48 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

I am about to get my master's in security studies, so we have looked a lot at the Iraq case.  I thought that maybe I could give everyone some information about why we went to war in the first place.  Hopefully this can clafify a few things.  Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I am just trying to give some facts on the matter.

I think that everyone (maybe minus Bush) recognizes today that the war is not going the way we wanted it to.  No one can honestly stand up and say that the Iraqis are doing great.  However, many, many people at the time thought that it was important to act against Saddam's horrible regime.

Saddam was a tyranical dictator who consistently abused his own people so that he could stay in power.  Furthermore, there was a very real fear that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.  Obviously we now know that he did not have weapons, but here is where that belief came from:

During the first Gulf War, the intelligence community found out that Saddam was only a few months away from building weapons, not years away as the community had thought.  After the Gulf War, the international community placed weapons inspectors in Iraq to ensure that he wouldn't build any.  Well, in 1998, Saddam kicked the weapons inspectors out and began telling anyone who would listen that he was building weapons.  Since we had very little intelligence on the ground, we could only go by what we heard and by previous knowledge.   

Also, we had (what we thought at the time to be) a very credible source telling not just the U.S. intel services, but also Arab and European services, that Saddam was building weapons and that he had seen them.

So, all of this information together meant that the United States and other truely believed that Iraq posed a grave threat to the world.

Hindsight is 20-20 and we now know that Saddam was lying in order to protect his own skin.  He thought he could deter the U.S. from invading if he pretended to have weapons---obviously he was wrong.

Sorry this is so long, I just thought I would clarify some issues for everyone about how we got into the war.

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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 3:52 PM Go to message in response to: DCTexan

DCTexan...the "weapons of mass destruction" thing bothers me, so perhaps you could clarify.  The USA HAS WEAPONS OS MASS DESTRUCTION.  Does that mean other countries would be justified in attacking the US?

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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:06 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Uh, the caps lock wasn't meant to come off as yelling...just thought I'd clarify.

I just get confused...who decides which countries are allowed to have WOMD and who aren't?

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futuremrsmason Posts : 240 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:07 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I don't know...

I want to be that person, though... I choose... NOBODY!
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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:10 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

I choose Australia.  I think they'd be really chill about it. Lol.

Someone mentioned that during the Vietman war, prisoners were given the option of going to war instead of staying in jail...anyone have more info about this?  It seems...scary to me...lol...people's lives were entrusted to criminals :P

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DCTexan Posts : 170 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:14 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

as for the weapons of mass destruction thing, there are actually numerous international treaties that dictate the terms of weapons productions.  For example, there is the chemical weapons convention, the biological weapons convention, and the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.  These treaties are designed to reign in countries and ensure that no one is building offensive weapons.

Part of the non-proliferation treaty, for example, says that International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA) inspectors will monitor developments.  Iraq kicked out the inspectors in 1998 and violated the treaty. 

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futuremrsmason Posts : 240 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:16 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

lol, you're right... definitely no woman who is under the age of 60 - pms and WOMD do NOT go together...
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ryanne Posts : 1,042 Registered: 4/27/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:25 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

lol, you're right... definitely no woman who is under the age of 60 - pms and WOMD do NOT go together...

lol. That's great....

But on a serious note, I don't support the war. I DO support the troops, though. FH and I have 3 good friends who joined the Marines in the last 18 months. The first one has headed over to the Middle East this month for his first deployment. We know it's just a matter of time before the others go too--and it'll be really hard to have them gone because we're closer to them.

I just want it to be done. However, it's probably not going to happen. I just hope I don't have to attend a funeral for them any time soon. :(


 

Our Wedding Website: www.mywedding.com/chrisandryanne

 

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,963 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:35 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

The USA HAS WEAPONS OS MASS DESTRUCTION.  Does that mean other countries would be justified in attacking the US?

You didn't ask me, BirdL, but let me just say that yes, in fact, they would if we were threatening to use them against the other country.

It's not so much about having them. . .it's about the use of them.  Same thing with any weapon.  My neighbor can own a gun just fine.  But the crazy guy down the street?  I really don't want him to have one.


_______________________________________________________
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them”    - Albert Einstein

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RanAway2Maine Posts : 2,359 Registered: 1/27/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 4:36 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

BirdLover,

If you Google "join the army or go to jail" you will see many interesting articles about the option. My FH has a friend who was offered this option during the mid-70's. 


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MissyF Posts : 275 Registered: 9/23/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 8:12 PM Go to message in response to: DCTexan

DCTexan: Thank you.

 

Woman to my man. Slave to my budget.

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