I think I want to call it off...major VENT!

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mrslilysolovely Posts : 2,130 Registered: 7/24/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 3, 2006 3:41 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

Gin, the beer IS an issue - OP says he will not take her out at night because he wants his beer! Does not sound like moderate consumption here - this is alcoholism! Makes me wonder if FFIL drank when abusing FH and siblings?

I, too, like beer and I do drink on occasion - had one last night. I do not, however, make FH sit at home because of it, and I am guessing that you don't do this to your husband either - our drinking a few beers now and again is not comparable to abusing it everyday and putting your FW and family aside in order to have the beers. If his desire for a six-pack requres that OP must give up having dinner out (or any other activity)- that is out of hand! Or, perhaps, just another way to control her. Regardless, his tolerance will get higher and that means he will have to drink more beers to get the same feeling - this is a well known fact of biochemistry, the more alcohol you drink, the more your body produces the enzymes that breakdown that alcohol, thus the more you must drink to "get a buzz". I have seen perfectly nice, "normal", resonable, rational, people become raging, incoherant, and mean. IT HAPPENS - BELIEVE IT!

 

And no, not EVERY person who is abused will become an abuser - but if you do some research, you will find the majority do, in some form or another, and I am happy you have lucked out in finding one that didn't. Some recover, others do not, or will not. I am not man bashing, only calling attention to serious risks. 

I state very clearly that counseling is the way to go - because it will address all of the problems listed in OP and other potential problems as well. Including the potential for the children (who should probably be counseled too, to get beyond the long-term abusive relationship OP mentioned) to have warped views on how a family should treat each other. These are not risks that I pulled out of thin air, Gin, and I usually agree 100% with your posts, but I have to say I do not agree with this one - children most certainly do learn from the environment they are in - it's Nature vs. Nurture, if you want to check into this. Even if the child learns how they do not want their family to be, the child still suffers.

BEEN HERE, DONE THIS 

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 3, 2006 3:53 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

Sorry Gin, but there is such a thing as a cycle of abuse.  I'm glad your DH hasn't repeted the cycle, but some aren't so lucky.  And a lot can be said for children learning from there parents.  It happens.  We may think that they are not affected but they are. 

In her case there is the repeted cycle of berating (emotional abuse), and then loving times. Lunchs out do not make up for the fact that he berates the OP for not cleaning the house.  Buying the OP whatever she wants but not letting her see the $$ or know what he makes.  They are not signs that everything is ok in the marriage. 

Michele and Kyle

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 3, 2006 4:08 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

I NEVER said there was no such thing......I said that I think alot of you are basically saying he is in the cycle....you don't know that, as far as the finances thing...I SAID that was WRONG...but maybe it is because that is how he is used to it being. I handle ALL of our (mine and my DH"s) finances.....no he doesn't have to "get my permission" to have money....but he does have to get it from me besides when he deposits his checks.....and I have the only bank card...if he had one we would be overdrawn as he would lose his numerous reciepts!!! And some people are GOOD people and are fine that came from crappy backrounds!!! I am married to one of those people and I find  it VERY hard to believe that MY DH is the only man in the world who came from crap and is a good guy!!! There are more out there!!! And like I said sometimes it takes adjustment and growth to learn how to live in a NORMAL and FUNCTIONAL household when you came from anything but!!! And SOMETIMES people do say things that they don't mean....it happens, and if that was the case then I would NOT consider that emotional abuse!! I have gotten upset with my DH and called him an asshole before.....and I ABUSING him....NO!!! I am just saying that I don't think anyone here has enough information about the OP to be jumping on the "just leave him" bandwagon!!

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 3, 2006 4:14 PM Go to message in response to: mrslilysolovely

LILY I agree that children learn from the enviornment they are in.....100%, but they either learn how to behave or how NOT to behave....ALL I was saying is that some learn what they DON"T want to be!!! As far as the beer thing, why can't he have a beer with dinner while you are out?? I often have beer with my dinner when DH and I got out to eat (as does my DH).....Bascially I was just saying that I don't think any of us know the OP well enough to be telling her to leave him.....Counseling YES!!!! I agree with that too, but, telling her to give up and leave him without really even knowing HER or HIM.....is a little harsh to me!! And the way I feel is when you love someone and you are in the postion to help them you should!!! If I were the OP, I would talk to him about ALL of this....the name calling, the crazy expectations, the drinking....and then tell him that I am here to help if he wants it but something has GOT to give!!! But, you can't ALWAYS just give up and walk away!!! That is really ALL my point was!!! (Oh and defending the small percent of those who come from crap and manage to be great people!!!)Wink

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mrslilysolovely Posts : 2,130 Registered: 7/24/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 3, 2006 5:07 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

My mom was terribly abused and although she learned how she didn't want her family to be - she still should not have had to suffer that abuse, even though it helped her to create a loving environment for my brother and I.

She suffered because her mother did not leave the man abusing her and her children - until he was sent to jail for it. Then when he got out of jail- she remarried him!!!!!!!

This is an example of the mother making horrendous decisions at the cost of her children's well-being - and grand children's! After I found this out I had to go to counseling to get to the point where I would even speak to my grandmother, much less enjoy a holiday! - the effects of abuse are long-term and far-reaching, affecting more than the one abused person.

I just wish my grandmother would have protected mom and uncles better - this being said, I wish for OP to protect her children from these horrors others and your DH have had to overcome.

Harm to none, Love for all - lily

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 11:10 AM Go to message in response to: mrslilysolovely

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Message was edited by MaysBride on Oct 5, 2006 10:36 PM

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 11:13 AM Go to message in response to: mrslilysolovely

First let me say I find it appalling that anyone would negatively judge a victim of abuse, no matter what the circumstances. My father was an alcoholic and an abusive man. My mother left him three times, the third time she stayed gone. My brother and I experienced abuse from my father, my brother more than I did. I do not hold it against my mother that she went back and I don't think anyone should EVER hold it against an abused person that they stayed in the situation longer than you would like them to have done. It is VERY difficult to leave abusive relationships and unless you have been in one you cannot realize just how difficult it is. Even when one's children are involved it is hard. My father sat outside our new apartment every day for two weeks, my mother was so afraid she had to have our neighbor (a young man) walk her to her car every morning. While it is tragic that children suffer because of their parents it is not the abused's fault, it is the abuser's fault. Eventually all my father had left was alcohol (after the divorce he was ordered to attend AA if he wanted to have visitation, he never went and he left the state). I haven't heard from him in over 8 years and, according to my grandparents (his parents) the alcohol has done so much damage that my father no longer remembers who my brother and I are, he doesn't even recall that he has children. As for the original poster - his behavior does sound indicative of alcoholism and future abuse but it also sounds like my stepfather (who hates to go out because of crowds and likes to drink one or two beers several nights a week) who is the nicest man I've ever met. It could go either way. I can only say, from firsthand experience, go with your gut feeling. If you feel the relationship could go south you should try to get out now and stay out, if you think it could return to a healthy relationship by all means try counseling and really work on your relationship. Best of luck to you.

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 12:20 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

TroysGirl - before you get so defensive please reread your first post.  Using the word "vent" doesn't lessen the statement that you were "thinking of calling it off."  That is a very strong statement, vent or no vent, and sends a message of high importantace.

Secondly, you're the one who painted your FH as an abuser.  Which says to me, as you sit here and defend him, either A. You were just drama queening it looking for some attention and got mad when no one "sided with you" or B. you are in an abusive realtionship and too brainwashed to see it.

 

Either way I strongly recommend counseling; either reality, that you were so willing to make your FH out to be a viilian or that you are being victimized are signs that you should not yet be getting married.

 

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lori83 Posts : 1,852 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 12:57 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

I have to agree with all that Kaliope wrote.

You did a complete turn around from your first post to your last. I wish you the best of luck.

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mrslilysolovely Posts : 2,130 Registered: 7/24/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 3:35 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

Stefanielyn - I find it far more appalling that a mother would  let her daughter endure years of sexual abuse from her own father - and remarry him after he got out of prison for this crime, bringing him back into the household for more abuse. FAR MORE APPALLING!!!! My mother did not speak to her mom for many years - but has since managed to forgive, which is why I felt (after much counseling) that if mom was forgiving her, I should as well, because I was not the one wronged.

TroysGirl - Good Luck, Best Wishes.

All opinions formed on the basis of original post, which sounds nothing like your last post.

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Tabbygirl Posts : 342 Registered: 3/28/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 4:01 PM Go to message in response to: mrslilysolovely

I would agree with you Lilysolovely. I know a number of grown children who were so damaged by the sexual/physical abuse of their fathers because their mothers closed their eyes and let it happen. It took years for some of those mothers to even admit that they knew about the abuse. Some won't even talk to their children/siblings because "it ruined" their image of their husband, father, etc. Many of these "children" are so screwed up now, they can't function in society and have ruined familial relationships of their own, despite years of counseling. It's one thing if you choose to stay in an abusive relationship as an adult who has a choice. It's another when you allow that abuse to affect the innocents who have no choice whatsoever. That's sick and appalling. It's true, we shouldn't condemn these abused women as they have been mentally and physically beat down to become weak, but sometimes the only way to stop them from continuing this cycle of abuse is to be tough with them.

 

TroysGirl - I'm not saying that this is your situation, but as others previously mentioned, what you spoke about in your original post raised many concerns and questions, especially now that you totally did a 180 on your OP. All of these ladies were trying to help you. You know your FH better than all of us, and you obviously love him deeply. Before getting married, I would suggest, as others have, going to counseling and therapy. That doesn't make anyone weak - It's actually a sign of strength and courage. The other thing I'd suggest is confiding in someone you know well and trust, who is on outside and knows the two of you well. Tell that person what you were feeling and thinking and ask that person his/her opinion and advice on your FH. Sometimes, they can see the person you love much more clearly than you can. No matter how much we all say that we don't have rose-colored glasses, we still have slightly tinted ones - We're all in love after all.

 

Good luck and I wish you and your children the best.


 

 

"Life appears to me too short to be spent in nursing animosity or registering wrongs." - Charlotte Bronte

www.gigmasters.com/classical/AlyssaLehman/

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 4:56 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

Dear, I wasn't going to give you my opinion, as everyone here has expressed basically whay I feel about your posts.  Like you said and I will elaborate more, opinions are like...  belly buttons... everybody has one.  However, you remind me of someone that I know very well, who would find excuses and would be on denial: ME.

 

Making excuses to justify your man is the first sign of an abused person - man or woman.  And dear, that's all I've been reading from you.  first you trashed this man and now he happens to be a religious, non-drinker, non-smoker and non-curser, fabulous, incredible man.  Let me tell you something about drinkers, smokers, cursers and not-too-religious people.  They could be the best people in the world.  My FH and I are social drinkers and drinking has never stopped us from having a normal relationship.  On the other hand and being abused by my first husband, I can tell you that the abuse would happen when he was ultra sober.  about smokers, there's nothing worng in smoking, as long as it's not illegal or a controled substance.  I am a smoker and that soesn't make me a bad person.  My FH and I do NOT go to church, we actually have a different perspective towards religion and that doesn't make us bad people.  We don NOT attend church, we do NOT pray at home.  We just strive to be better human beings by helping the people in need and other things that I don't need to disclose to you or anyone else.  There is also nothing wrong in saying bad words here and there, as long as you don't use them to offend people, especially when we're having an argument. In your last post, you described you FH as a religious man, whom you and him are happy with.  but in your first post, you said that he won't take you out to dinner, because he rather stay home and drink beer.  What's wrong in this picture?  you figure it out yourself.

 

About buying you everything you want as long as he can afford it - do you NOT know that that is the way of an abuser to show you how "kind" he is?  This is the way the abuser disguises his meanness and makes up for a bad argument.  Buying gifts won't cut it.

 

My FH did finally last night admit to what he bid on this job that he refused to tell me about. He even admitted that he may have bid the job too low. (The reason he didn't want to tell me in the first place.) He wants me to be proud of him and his accomplishments. Who in their right mind could fault the man for that? Not me. He is very talented, and sometimes I feel he undervalues himself. He says he doesn't want to cheat people...and in doing that, he will sometimes cheat himself. He has done things for people that if they had called an electrician or a plumber...they would have charged at the very least 5 times what he charged.  -

Oh boy!  First you said that he won't tell you how much he makes.  Now you said it was only ONE job.  I don't know who his customers are, but bidding jobs usually stays on the same figure, as material and labor are charged most likely the same, unless this man owns the factory where they make the materials and then he can bid for less; or not charge for labor.  About you being proud, I'll tell you what: my FH is not the richest of men and I'm so proud of all the things he does.  I admire him and he knows it and vice versa.  We support and respect each other and we don't hide information from each other.

 

Controlling me? Ha! He doesn't control my finances. We have seperate accounts. Nor does he control any aspect. I can go anywhere I please, talk to anyone I please, buy anything I please, dress how I please, color my hair any color I please, grow or cut my hair any way I please, eat/drink anything I please.

Honey, all these items should be the least of your worries. Belive me, they don't mess with stuff like this.

 

Control me....hardly the case. He just likes things done in a certain way....I'm not going to do it his way but my way. He knows that....frustrating for him and me obviously. But he is learning that. LOL He is a perfectionist...I'm not, I'm more laidback. Jeez...he can clean better than most women. His cooking skills would make ya'll moan with the sheer pleasure of tasting one little bite.

Everyboday has their own book and how to get things done.  In my household, I do most of the cleaning and cooking.  My FH helps, and he would never criticize how I do things.  He appreciates what I cook, clean and do.  Our laundry is done ion Wednesday nights and if I cannot hang until Saturday, I don't and my FH is incapable of complaining.  The day that I decide not to clean, complaining doesn't happen.  If criticizing your cleaning and cooking is not verbal abuse, please tell me what it is.  I also know it is not a competiton of who does it better.

 

I hope that the stor your weathering doesn't become the mental health of your children, because as of you, there's nothing anyone can do to make you understand that you're living in an abusive partnership.

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 5:25 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

I wish you the best of luck in your life, and your marriage.

I'll only offer this...based on your first post, where you vented your frustrations, you reminded me of a dear friend, who is in a marriage that now, after 10 yrs, she feels emotionally absent from.

He constantly criticizes her, belittles her, and humilates her in front of other people.  Then he tells her that she brought it on herself for being so "stupid" (or fat, ugly, dirty...whatever direction his rant is on for that day).  THEN he gets all indignant when she cries or in his words "acts like a baby" because of her hurt feelings.  He also refuses to see that he has done or said anything wrong. 

He controls the household finances, giving her an allowance every week to get "necessities".  Every now and then, he brings her home flowers, takes her to dinner, buys her a new dress....but only after he's been particularly mean to her.

She knows that she should leave, but she won't, because she's financially dependant on him.  They have two children, and he has told her that if she leaves, the kids stay, and he'll fight her tooth and nail for custody.  She feels trapped. 

 

I'm not saying that your FH is like this guy....I'm not saying that your situation is the same.  I'm only saying that reading what you wrote made me think of Jessie, and what she goes through every day. 

I hope and pray that you will be happy in your life, with, or without this man.  If you get married, best of luck to you, and I hope you have many happy years. 

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Guest
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 10:36 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

I just think that some people don't consider all the variables of the situation when making judgement. Like when our mothers or grandmothers were abused and we think they should have left. You have to remember that 40-50 years ago there weren't as many options for women. Lots of women went straight from their parents homes to their husband's home and didn't work. How likely would a women in today's society be to succeed if she had no work skills, didn't have family around to initially support her, and divorce was as unpopular as it used to be? I know that it seems unfathomable that someone would stay in a situation that put their children in danger but sometimes you have to look at what the person was up against. I hold nothing against my mother, she did the best she could. My father would have killed her if she hadn't left right when she did (no earlier, no later). She took the time to get an education so she could support us and gathered enough evidence to try to keep him away from her and us during the divorce. Sometimes, as horrible as it sounds, leaving is just not an option, especially for our grandmothers.

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Tabbygirl Posts : 342 Registered: 3/28/06
Re: I think I want to call it off...major VENT!
Posted: Oct 4, 2006 11:20 PM Go to message in response to: Guest

Yes, you are right that 40-50 years ago, things were different. Women didn't have as many options. I don't think people are making judgements, especially on women from that time period. Women today do have options and help much more so than 40 years ago. But despite the help, women still keep going back to their abusive partners with their children in tow and more children are being subjected to more abuse. A young woman my husband helped back in college was continuously raped by her father while her mother turned a blind eye to this. He was still raping her when she'd come home for visits from college. The woman had so much low self-esteem, she had no idea what love actually was. With the help of my husband and couple other friends who served as witnesses, they were able to bring him to court and put him in jail. What happened to this young women? Her family - her mother basically shunned her for incarcerating that scumbag. That is the type of mother I'm talking about when I am disgusted with their behaviours.

 

I personally know a woman, who, over 50 years ago, was one of those women who grew up with a very physically abusive father that beat her and her siblings practically every day. She escaped from one abusive situation into another when ran away and married at 15 and never finished high school. She lived with an abusive husband until she was 18 and had a child and as soon as she saw how her husband treated their child, her eyes were opened. She realized that she didn't want to continue the cycle of abuse and subject her child with this or have him grow up thinking that abuse was ok. So, she left and divorced her husband. No one supported her. Everyone abandoned her because divorce was a very bad word back then. Both sides tried to make her life a hell. But she made it on her own as a single mother at a time when it was unheard of. This woman had nerves of steel, was brave and learned her own worth, never allowing herself to be in that situation again. She is now close to 70. Perhaps she was out of the norm for her time, but I believe she is someone to use as an example who could overcome these tragedies. She is someone who would believe you sometimes have to show tough love to these women who have been emotionally and physically beaten into submission. It's sometimes the only way to get through to them.

 

It was very brave of your mother to have left your father. Please know that I do not believe people are judging your mother for what she put up with. I'm definitely not. But the point is, she did leave for good. She didn't stay to subject you to any more abuse.

 

 


 

 

"Life appears to me too short to be spent in nursing animosity or registering wrongs." - Charlotte Bronte

www.gigmasters.com/classical/AlyssaLehman/

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