I dont think anyone here is wanting to spend the rest of their life witha "boy". Men are what these guys are supposed to be. i dont mean any disrespect to whoever wrote that...but i think it's an excuse we give men, to behave like children. It's not about insecurity...i have and would gladly put on a sexy show for my soon to be husband, but thats between me and him, ...not him and naked strangers....that's not loving or original to the relationship...its childlike...in my opinion.
I don't know who wrote it before but I agree.... I think denying men from hanging out with their guys... be it at a strip club or hooters or a bar.... with cause them to act out. It's when someone tells you that you CAN'T do something that you want to do it even more. I'd rather have my FH be open and honest with me about going to a strip club than hiding it.
I guess I got lucky since my DH REFUSES to go to strip clubs....he said he has no desire to pay 10-30 dollars to get in just to look at women who are a hell of a lot less attractive than his wife, and even before we got together he just said that he finds it disgusting and increadibly stupid of men (the ones who spend tons of $$)......we actually went to a club out of town a few months back (we thought is was a regualar danicing, bar club) and we got there and the people we were with didn't tell us it was a strip club.....my DH was NOT happy. And I will tell you what he didn't look at one girl the whole time, he played pool with me!! I would not be with a man who made it habit to go to strip clubs, once in a while would be fine, but I don't have that problem at all.
I agree with RenaMarie. If my DH wanted to go to strip clubs all the time, I'd certainly have a problem with it. But if he were overseas with a bunch of guys and they all wanted to go, I wouldn't make him feel like he had to sit in the hotel room by himself rather than go with them. I trust him completely, though, and I know he really has no interest in such things. He only ever goes to strip clubs for bachelor parties with his friends in big groups, and it doesn't bother me at all. I have known some girls who will forbid their SO's from going to a bachelor party if they know it's going to be at a strip club, and I feel so sorry for their boyfriends/FHs/husbands who have to miss out on all the fun just because the bachelor party happens to take place where bachelor parties traditionally take place. I don't want my DH to ever be the one left out who has to tell one of his buddies, "I can't go to your bachelor party because my wife won't let me."
I have known some girls who will forbid their SO's from going to a bachelor party if they know it's going to be at a strip club, and I feel so sorry for their boyfriends/FHs/husbands who have to miss out on all the fun just because the bachelor party happens to take place where bachelor parties traditionally take place. I don't want my DH to ever be the one left out who has to tell one of his buddies, "I can't go to your bachelor party because my wife won't let me."
Interestingly enough, my FH's brother was annoyed that FH told him he didn't want anything involving strippers at his own bachelor party. Not cause "I forbid him" but because he sees strippers as being a degradation of women, and refuses to pay into it. If my FH was invited to a bachelor party that involved strippers, he would probably go to all the pre-stuff, and then leave - of his own accord. There are more ways for guys to bond and have fun than paying to look at some girl's boobs.
For that matter, why are you carping on the girls who "forbid" their guys? First off all, if she has to "forbid" him, she's in a bad situation to start - him wanting to go, and being annoyed that she doesn't want him to. As we all know, there are tons of women out there that have that little feeling of insecurity in their bodies - and having their men go out to strip clubs to look at women who are paid to look good, can really cause a lot of emotional and mental distress to them. Women are extremely different from men in that what normally "turns us on" doesn't usually involve seeing a handsome guy with a big youknow - whereas with men, they are very much stimulated by what they see. So, i kinda feel bad for the women who have their FH's or husbands enjoy this sort of thing, or try to justify it by saying they're "hanging out with the boys" - what, they couldn't go to a ball game or something?
i am not trying to make anyone upset or anything, because i would not really care if DH saw that type of show, though i would probably get in a debate with him over poverty (thai average income being $700 USD a year) and resulting self exploitation some women feel nessecitated. (what can i say!!! i am politically passionate and very pro womens rights. i mean really, while some people think its funny, i think its kind of sad that a woman would feel the need to do such a thing for money. meanwhile, i actually have a good friend who is a stripper. i guess i feel like some of the rules US stateside allow dancers to be in a more powerful position than in 2nd and 3rd world nations)
having traveled extensively through SE Asia, its not exactly like it is here. We see dancers and preformers at night and then the same woman might be working at the desk next to you during the day. because of strict edicts by the society, there are great chances that these women are hookers. the Dual lifestyles that allow US preformers the ability to discern there professional lives from their private lives is practically non existant in that region, perhaps because the sexual revolution was also non existant. trust me, no bra burning near the China sea!!
which brings me to the point, i would probably be upset at the finace, not because he saw naked women. i mean, for gosh sakes, i watch rated R movies! i went to Cancun were many suburban girls next door flashed their chests for a free beer. so i am not disturbed about viewing strippers. i guess i would be upset that the guy didnt understand that he was finding humor in women who were forced to do something so degrading. i dunno. i mean, i can totally understand why the women were doing it. they are poor... EXTREMELY so compared to US. you can make $700 a year mowing 1 lawn a month state side!!! There options are what, farming? most farmers are poverty stricken (because remember $700 is the AVERAGE meaning lots make much less). Working in a hotel? only if you come from a goood family. in fact, it is alarming that in Thailand, along with most other SE Asian countries rasism and sexism are quite open and rampant. people cover their skin in long sleeved clothing in 90 degree weather, because tans are considered ugly and only poor people have them. when flying a taiwanese airline only women are allowed to be flight attendants. and only pretty ones.
i know this is a bit off course, but i really wanted to address this, because there seems to be a lot of talk tis guy, but nothing about what he saw and how he reacted. don't get me wrong, i have laughed at inappropriate things before, in part because i didnt understand why someone would not find it funny! but i truely think that education is the most important part of enlightenment. perhaps that what OP is upset about? i can understand that. however, i think a discussion would probably help sort out this issue rather than an end to the engagement. best wishes.
I think you're assuming that the guy in question whose SO forbade him from going was necessarily interested in the naked breasts. In my experience, it's more the male bonding experience that is important to the guys than the actual naked women (who are often quite skanky), and the man who is told by his SO that he can't go just wants to hang out with his friends, wherever they happen to be. Often he isn't the one who chose the location and it isn't up to him to change it. Thus, if his SO forbids him from going to a strip club, he can't just hang out with the guys at a ball game instead, because they're still going to go to the strip club, with or without him.
For my DH's bachelor party, he and his friends went boating on the river for the day, then went to some bars, then, after that, they went to a strip club. While they were at one of the bars, a couple of the guys' girlfriends "crashed" the bachelor party. When the guys decided it was time to move on to the strip club, the two girlfriends pitched a fit and didn't want their guys to go. My understanding from my DH is that one of the guys went anyway (he'd only been dating his GF a short time and wasn't about to let her tell him what to do). The other didn't go, but was disappointed that he was being left out. He lived with his GF, though, and told my DH that he didn't want her to make his life miserable if he went.
For a lot of these guys, it isn't about wanting to see naked women. It's about having the traditional "bachelor party experience." It's all good-natured, and I really don't see the problem with it. But then again, I'm confident in my body, so I'm not worried that DH is going to see something he likes better.
i am still apt to beleive that the powerfulness/ powerlessness of the particular subject makes it acceptable entertainment verses something more exploitative. thus the United States explicit guidlines and laws involving age limits and consent regarding the adult entertainment industry. its also that way in the Neatherlands. Control is not nessecarily a bad thing (so long as you are a single guy in the red light district). like i stated, i dont think seeing a US stripper makes a guy a cheater. my husband goes to them when there is a bachelor party and i could care less. i would just be concerned about the judgement of the finace that thought this PARTICULAR venue was OK. however, as i also noted, i dont think his lack of judgement makes him a bad person, probably just someone who hasn't put the WHOLE picture into perspective and considered what his patronization says about his views of feminism as a whole.
But as we can all see here, everyone has a different opinion on the subject. It's your OPINION, so it doesn't make someone right and someone wrong. but for two people who are about to make a HUGE committment, this subject should be something they agree upon. If you are fine with your FH going to strip clubs and such, fine. Let him do it. Even tag along if you want. It's none of my business.
I, personally, (again, this is my OPINION) find that type of "entertainment" distasteful and I also think that my DH shouldn't "need" that kind of entertainment either. DH knows that i would never tell him that I think it's okay if he would go to one, bachelor party or not. It doesn't make me an insecure person, nor does it make me a controlling wife. DH and I should be able to get that kind of visual gratification from each other, not from watching someone else.
And DH agrees with me. He would never say, "My wife won't let me come to your party, because there will be strippers there," because he doesn't think that watching a woman, other than his wife (of course) take of all her clothes is fun at all, and would never participate in such a thing.
It is not a trust issue. If it was, DH would never be able to leave the house, lol. and while, yeah, sex probably never happens in those strip clubs in the US, you can't say that a guy doesn't get aroused by being there. If he didn't, why would it be a form of "entertainment?" If I knew that DH (this is an example) thought it was okay to intentionally go to a place where he would be sexually aroused by some other woman who wasn't his wife, we would have a problem.
This is an issue that the OP and her FH need to address together, to figure out where they stand on the issue, because obviously, if it's important enough to bother her this much, it's important enough for them to discuss.
In my experience, it's more the male bonding experience that is important to the guys than the actual naked women (who are often quite skanky), and the man who is told by his SO that he can't go just wants to hang out with his friends, wherever they happen to be. Often he isn't the one who chose the location and it isn't up to him to change it. Thus, if his SO forbids him from going to a strip club, he can't just hang out with the guys at a ball game instead, because they're still going to go to the strip club, with or without him.
So, he can't go to the next "male bonding" session? Or maybe take the initiative and be the one organizing it? I am perfectly happy with my own body, and as I've said before, my FH makes his own decisions on where he chooses to go, and what he chooses to go - but he is more of a leader type than a follower.
I only brought this up because I DO feel there are a lot of women out there who aren't as confident as me, or you, and having to deal with this sort of "tradition" probably doesn't help their situation - and they shouldn't be put down because of it. I'm personally of the same opinion as jgor, though I tend to find it degrading regardless, as does my FH (who felt that way before he met me). He said he'd prefer to buy me some lingerie than pay some other women to jiggle around on a stage - then again, he also views sex and sexuality as being meaningless without love, which I think is uncommon with most men.
FH and I have had man discussions about the degredation of these women. Yes, there are some women who have no other options and must take their clothes off/shoot ping pong balls, in order to make a living. And for those women it is very unfortunate. But i think there is something to be said for the women who choose these professions because they can make twice as much money as they would make at any other job.
Now just for clarification, I was never a hooters girl, but being that FH worked there, I spent a lot of time at them, and talked to a lot of girls. Some of the, and I do mean some, are inteligent womem who are making $40-$70,000 a year. And they don't have to take their clothes off. So my point is that not all of these women do this because they have to....they do it because they want to. As for the reaction of the OP's FH, I think he reacted like most people who are shocked at what they're seeing, but there for pure entertainment....I wouldn't question him for a normal reaction.
Posted: Sep 22, 2006 4:58 PMGo to messagein response to: Soon2BTaylor
unfortunately, Hooters restaurant and establishments in Thailand are NOT the same. also, they DON'T make anywhere NEAR 40k while a waitress here at Hooters does make that, for serving chikenwings and wearing a tight tee shirt. in the US you CAN be a stripper or a Hooters girl, or really, even a call girl (did anyone see pretty woman? and NO, i do not think being a call girl is the same as being a waitress at hooters. i am just saying the US and other european societies are different in there treatment of women than many others) and then still persue your dreams. over there, it is DIFFERENT. so i think people are comparing apples and oranges when they say, "i'd let my husband go to eat wings at Hooters and then get a lap dance at Batta Bing's" and then compare it to a women who is considered a second class citizens by there fellow citizens because she is poor and a female, and thus is is a position where she feels she needs to fling ping pong balls from her vagina for a nominal sum for the following reasons; to eat, get enough money to move to another country for more financial opportunities, feed there fam, because she may have been sexually abused and is no longer found valuable by their people as a result. in many places the victim is prosecuted (though i consider that horrid) instead of the perpetrater. its sad, but that IS a realty for those ladies. i just dont feel it is the same deal as with Bobby Joe from Smalltown, USA who decides to work at hooters because it pays better than the IHOP. good for her, because she is going somewhere. she is doing something because she will get something in return. i dont know if that is the case for the girls that the finace of the OP was talking about, and i beleive that THAT is the difference.
Once again, i dont think that the OP should dump her FH beacuse of this occurance. afterall, she obviously has trust in him, and is NOT insecure if he was in Thailand without her in the first place. but i think she should talk with him to make sure he truely understands the prevading sexism that is a part of our world and is detrimental to women, especially in poverty striken and war torn nations, and how his opinions and thoughts will effect their own daughters and sons.