Poll: would you report it?

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CatStandish Posts : 2,766 Registered: 6/20/08
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 4, 2010 7:14 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

1. Animal abuse/neglect - Absolutely I would. Right now, I'm pissed because a neighbor moved out and left her cat behind. The only good thing I'll say about that cow is that she at least didn't leave the cat IN the house. Still, it's declawed. And now it's pregnant. So we and another neighbor take care of it. The cat doesn't want to come in a house...but she's rather happy with a shelter the neighbor has prepared for her. But we'll be having kittens for distribution in a couple of months.

2. Spousal abuse - I don't know that I would report it. But I would do whatever I could to encourage the abusee to leave, and get the courage to leave. I would even be willing to help pack up while abuser is at work. My parents' church has actually done that many times. Why would I not report it? Because a lot of times the abusee is not ready to leave...and it would be more important to me to gain her trust so that she'd let me help her. Calling the cops on them would not necessarily be conducive to that. However, if I could do it annonymously and not have her realize it was me, absolutely I would.

3. Child neglect/abuse - Yes. Now, NJ brings up a point. Sometimes discipline is misreported as abuse. I was disciplined--mostly with time outs, but I did get the occasional whallop. I also had a school report my parents for abuse because of the fact that I was always turning up bruised to the hilt. And it was not my parents. I really WAS the kid that fell. No kidding. I had amblioplia, and had no depth perception...so I walked into walls and tripped on curbs and things like that. I went to school extremely late one day because I tripped over a curb and beat the snot out of my leg. It was bleeding so badly that a lady in the neighborhood I was walking through came out and took me to her house, treated it, then drove me to the school nurse (who then called my parents). I was 7. And yes, my mom thought there was issues because I walked into walls etc. And she did take me to eye doctors. My next statement: Apologies to military physicians...but military doctors can SUCK. Every year for my eye exam, they covered my right eye first and had me read the chart. Then they covered my left eye. And asked me to read the chart. I thought it was a memory test (I didn't realize they'd covered the right eye...it was blind). And I always passed the memory test with flying colors. After my first grade teacher witnessed me tripping on things, walking into walls and desks, she realized that my parents were not the monsters who were beating their child, but that the child needed to see a different eye doctor, and the school set up an appointment with a NON military doctor. He covered my left eye first and asked me to read the chart, and I told him "That eye doesn't work" So he asked me why I never said it didn't work. I truly didn't realize it was supposed to. We have two ears...it's for balance, a decoration. Shortly after that, I stopped tripping on everything and my bruises went away. But it was largely in part to intervention on the school's behalf -- as my mom had no idea that the doctors were so crappy.

So while it was not abuse or neglect, it was because of that school's and that Teacher's intervention (a public school, not a military one)....Mrs. Jones at Popham Elementary School in Austin, Texas. (I'm very grateful to them!)

4. Welfare fraud (ongoing for years) - depends....if they are buying the cadillacs and living large, and I have actual knowledge of it, I probably would. I have known of people who did that, but not their names. But if they are using the proceeds to survive, then no.

5. Bank fraud - I work for a financial institution. It's my job.

Misty

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 4, 2010 10:55 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Great question and awesome discussion starter.

Child Abuse and Neglect.. absolutely. I've unfortunately had to make numerous reports over the years as part of my job and have also had to make reports related to people I knew personally. It is a hard thing to do, but children cannot protect themselves, it is up to us to do so. And if I felt nothing was being done, I would go to a higher source. The Social Worker's Supervisor, The Supervisor's Supervisor, The Prosecuting Attorney, The Governor, Tony Soprano.. whoever!

Same with Animal Abuse/Neglect. Although I would be tempted to steal the neglected animal and I can't honestly say I wouldn't. I guess that would make me a criminal.

Spousal Abuse. I worked in a domestic violence shelter for several years during my undergraduate college days. I got so frustrated when women would go back to the same situation over and over again. Isn't it something like "a woman will leave an abusive husband/BF 37 times before she leaves for good? Domestic Violence is the number one killer of women in the U.S. Huge problem.

But.... I must say this. And as a future police officer I will be interested to know what you think about this:

Crimes like Spousal Abuse, Drugs, Welfare Fraud, etc. While I wish I would say "yes", there are situations where I would not. For instance, two years ago I found myself living in a very bad neighborhood. Drug dealers, wife beaters, etc. I learned very quickly to mind my own business in that neighborhood. Mind your own business and the drug dealers and other criminals leave you alone. And in fact, if anyone tried to bother me, my neighbors, the drug dealers and other bad guys would come to my rescue! It was the weirdest thing. I had previously lived in an upper class gated community, where crime is just as bad but "we don't talk about that"... and I promise, the uppercases criminals would never come to my rescue if I needed it. They would turn their back and act like they didn't know me. So, in some ways, I felt more secure in that bad neighborhood. What's up with that?

I have had patients in the past who were cheating the system in some way, either welfare or social security. People who receive SSI get like $650 a month to live off. Some would be working under the tables to make ends meet. I would never report that. But blatant abuse of the system? Yeah, I probably would. I guess it is a judgement call. And I guess as citizens, we often have to make certain judgements based on the facts we have.

Awesome subject.

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 4, 2010 11:34 PM Go to message in response to: FrancieElaine

I'm glad that people like the discussion. Occasionally, I enjoy having (somewhat random) discussions about things that spring to my mind, and it's nice to have an outlet to do just that!

I realize, though, that I didn't really give my answers. Here they are:

Child/Animal abuse, absolutely. They can't report it themselves, and I think that these types of abuse are absolutely inexcusable. Now, as NJ pointed out, sometimes kids do lie. Yes, it happens. But reporting a false accusation is not as danger as NOT reporting a true one. First of all, it takes a LOT for children to be removed from their parents (much more than a case of "he said she said"), so if you ended up reporting something untrue, it's not like it would result in the unfair removal of a child from their home. Second, child services is pretty good usually at figuring out whether a child's story is true. (For example: they might ask the same questions over and over again, to see if the story changes. If the child changes major details of their account of the incident, it might cause them to be suspicious).

Spousal abuse - depending on the situation. If I witnessed it, then yes. I'd hate myself if something worse happened later and I had done nothing. But once I'd report it, I'd understand that it might not make a difference, as many women (and men) do stay in abusive situations far longer than they should.

Welfare fraud - I'm like Art. It would depend on the situation. Abuse of the welfare system can drive me nuts, however, I do have empathy. A single mom with three kids who does some "under the table" work just to make ends meet is not something I'd report. But a couple of able-bodied people defrauding the system to get more money because they choose not to work would bother me.

Bank fraud - it would probably depend on the situation. It's doubtful I'd ever really have proof of anyone doing that, unless they were stupid enough to tell me.


Note: I can imagine it would be terrible to be falsey accused of child abuse, so you certainly shouldn't do about it willy-nilly. I know that my friend got tons of comments from people when her infant son had a cast on his leg. Of course, those people didn't bother to find out that he had a club foot before they made their comments.


P.S. Auntofthebride touched on a good point: mandatory reporting. I don't know if these rules apply everywhere, but I know that where I am from, any adult is LEGALLY obligated to report child abuse. Is that the same where any of you live?
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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CatStandish Posts : 2,766 Registered: 6/20/08
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 5, 2010 8:16 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I know a lot of people have been concerned about false reports...but as someone who had her parents turned in...whose parents didn't deserve to be turned in, I can tell you that what happened to them was that they were given access to resources they did not have.

I was the recipient of some pioneering treatment--at the time I was diagnosed with amblioplia, most opthomologists had written off children 7 years of age as incurable. But I was put in a study group. Today, I wear glasses...but you know what? I'm no longer legally blind.

My parents would not have had that access, or the knowledge that the eye doctor I was going to was crap....if the school had not stepped in. They were not treated like monsters.

Misty

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 5, 2010 12:33 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

In WV, I know counselors, doctors, teachers, social workers, nurses, etc. are "mandated reporters". In other words, you could lose your license for failing to report. I am sure the laws here in NC are the same.

In WV, a law was passed this past year making it a felony to make false charges of child abuse during custody cases. In the past, women would say the Fathers of children were abusing the kids in order to get custody.. which is horrible! Do it in WV now and you could go to jail. False reporting should have criminal consequences.

Francie Elaine, The Bride Whisperer

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 5, 2010 12:54 PM Go to message in response to: FrancieElaine

Francie, my mom knows someone in that situation right now . When it looked like he was about to get custody, BAM. Suddenly he's an abuser. The case was thrown out in criminal court after the kid pretty much admitted that his mother told him to say those things, but now she's filed a civl suit. He still can't see his kids, not even supervised visits!

Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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karebeartg Posts : 831 Registered: 6/25/08
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 5, 2010 1:38 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

For me, I'd probably say yes to all but spousal abuse.

Animal abuse, I'd likely be sorely tempted to "steal" the animals, like Francie. My dog was neglected by his prior owners and lost an eye as a result - I'm pretty all over that as a result.

Spousal abuse, I'm much more hesitant to report. My concern is that 1) I'd report, 2) the police would come, 3) as frequently happens, the abused denies any problem, 4) the police leaves, 5) the abuser gets worse. Unless the abused person is ready to take steps, I'd be afraid of making things worse. I'd be more inclined to try to befriend/corner/approach the person I believe is being abused and make it clear that what is going on isn't ok and that there are resources when or if that person is ready.

 

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 5, 2010 11:45 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Don't get me started...LOL! I had a very close friend who actually went to jail after his ex-wife accused him of molesting their girls. He was cleared, and he now has partial custody.. but it was a mess for a very long time. He is very active now in helping Father's who get in similar situations. I am a huge Father's Rights Advocate. That is one subject that will get me on the soapbox!

Francie Elaine, The Bride Whisperer

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 12:29 PM Go to message in response to: FrancieElaine

I think that false accusations of sexual abuse (from an adult) is one of the worst things you can do to someone. Because it doesn't not matter if they are later cleared of the crime, their lives are affected, and sometimes ruined, FOREVER


Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 2:31 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

You are so right about that.. which is why I am really glad the law is waking up and making it a punishable crime!

Francie Elaine, The Bride Whisperer

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ArtBride Posts : 4,838 Registered: 5/9/07
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 3:03 PM Go to message in response to: FrancieElaine

Regarding the issue of false reports, I would rather report someone that I suspected of abuse and have them later turn out to be innocent than not report someone who was actually abusive for fear of making a false report.

As the person witnessing or suspecting abuse, I only know what I have seen and heard. It is not my job to make the determination. That's up to the authorities. But if I see or hear something that makes me suspect abuse, I'm going to call the relevant authorities and let them sort it out. I'm not going to worry that so-and-so may be innocent and this incident may follow them for the rest of their lives. If they are innocent, the authorities will probably figure that out. The bottom line: I would rather take the chance that an innocent person be falsely accused of a crime rather than not reporting and letting an innocent person or animal suffer.

DaisypathWedding Ticker

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 5:08 PM Go to message in response to: ArtBride

Thinking there is abuse going on and reporting it are one thing.

Deliberately lying and accusing someone of something, like in a custody case, then if they DO figure out that it was a false accusation - the accuser should be legally prosecuted. Unfortunately, it's still difficult to prosecute and that does follow you for the rest of your life.

I've reported animal abuse before by my neighbors. I've called in a domestic altercation - it was three houses down and loud. I knew there were kids there and I would have felt horrible if something had happened and I hadn't called it in.

If I knew the cops would have done something and not ignored it, I would have reported my ex sis in law and the guy living with her for dealing drugs out of their apartment with the kids there. But it had already been called in and ignored.

I wouldn't know what would constitute bank fraud. But I would report it if I knew it had happened.

 

 

 

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AmyJustin2010 Posts : 201 Registered: 1/18/10
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 6:43 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

As usual, I have a long winded story that correlates to my response :P

As far as the questionable reports go, I still think it's worth it to turn people in. Our neighbors absolutely hated us. They heard my Dad disciplining our dog (not even touching her) and she was whining because she's extremely eager to please. They called the police, and the police showed up a few hours later. The officer sat down at the kitchen table and said to my Mom "So these are the "abused" animals?" She's like (sarcasm) yup, sure, they're abused alright. The dogs had just returned from the doggie spa and were enjoying their bones in the front yard. The police told my Mom to have a good day and patted the dogs on the head.

So what I'm getting at from the above story is this--it wasn't that big of a deal for the police to come check it out to see that nothing was wrong. I'd much rather have the police check out everything, even the obviously innocent/falsely accused people if it means that more animals would be safe.

AmyJustin2010.Weebly.Com

 

Amy & Justin--Buffalo Sabres Fanatics :) 

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 7:06 PM Go to message in response to: AmyJustin2010

Like I said - HUGE difference between mis-reporting and KNOWINGLY falsely accusing someone (especially in the case of child/sexual abuse by a parent because it's not amicable).

But as with anything, race also plays a huge part. Growing up, the agency that you report child abuse to would be out in a second climbing up any white family that was reported for child abuse but we couldn't get them to come out and even investigate the family of a childhood friend who's family was latino. It wasn't until the son ran away (and I helped hide him from the cops - I was in high school) that the kids were FINALLY removed from the house.

Sometimes, reporting it isn't enough. Sucks.

 

 

 

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TheNewMrsJ Posts : 754 Registered: 1/6/08
Re: Poll: would you report it?
Posted: Feb 6, 2010 8:11 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

1. Animal abuse/neglect

2. Spousal abuse

3. Child neglect/abuse

4. Welfare fraud (ongoing for years)

5. Bank fraud

I'd report the first 3, for if nothing else just to give the authorities a heads up that something may not be right. Of course they can go to the house and nothing can appear to be wrong, but at it least it will be on file later that someone alerted them about it if it does go public.

As for frauds... while I'd like to report that, unless you have actual proof (which odds are you wouldn't) I don't there's much they can do about it since it'd be all hersay - your word against someone else's, unless of course you have written proof. And unless you're related I don't think they'd really understand why you're 'tattling' on someone's financial stuff, ya know? Who's to say they wouldn't think there's some ulterior motive?

Friends since December 1997, together since December 2006
September 13, 2008 I legally became his and he became mine.

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