Shots You Absolutely Had To Have

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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 9:02 PM

Here is the Who!

If are already married or are getting married, what are some must haves as far as your photography goes...

The What! 

Also if you have a favorite picture that the photographer took I would love for you to share it

OK now for the why. My FH & I DJ weddings a good bit and I take some amature shots that have many times become the only pictures some of our couples have to cherish due to faulty or fraudulant photographers and I would just like to get some ideas for things that brides and grooms alike look for.

Thanks for your assistance


Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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MagicalMomentsP... Posts : 742 Registered: 3/6/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 9:31 PM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

Ashley,

While I understand your concern about problems with photographers, the best way to combat this is to find some great photographers you trust and want to work with in the future.  Then provide this list to your clients.  

I can tell you from personal experience, I can and do politely tell any other wedding professional to put their cameras away.  I also give them any images they desire for their own promotional purposes so they have no reason to be taking photos.

Personally, rightly or wrongly I perceive another vendor taking photos as taking food out of my kids' mouths.  My contracts specifically say: 

MMP is the exclusive photographer retained to perform the photographic services for this EVENT.  Use of a photographer not authorized by MMP is a breach and MMP may leave the event with no further obligation to the CLIENTs.  CLIENTs grant MMP exclusive sales and distribution rights for all photographs from this EVENT.

Just as a union electrician would not allow a plumber to change a light bulb, photographers have to protect ourselves. If you did this at one of my events, I could legally leave the event and have no other obligation to the clients or even have to deliver an album.  I would guess that more than 90% of photographers have a similar clause. It would become either she stops or we leave/shut down until she stops. 

In addition to the lost revenue, you could be mistaken for one of the photographer's employees.  What happens if you take a photo, it doesn't end up on the couple's gallery and the subject of the photo calls the photographer demanding to get the photo?  What happens if the photographer causes an accident and you are mistaken for being part of his/her business.  You could get sued! 

What you are proposing to undertake may end up hurting you more than you realize.  There are many local photography associations as well as state, national and international associations.  Photographers do talk to one another just as brides converse.  You would be pretty upset if a photographer showed up at a wedding with a boom box and claimed it was there because DJ's don't show up.  The photographer would be stepping into your area of expertise. 

If you upset the wedding photographers in your area, it would not be that difficult for them to steer clients towards other DJs and away from you.  I know this sounds harsh, but I have seen and read the complaints from photographers about DJs taking photos.  This is a majorly sore subject with photographers.

So while I understand your frustration with some rogue photographers, most of us are responsible reputable photographers.  We're just as upset with photographers who disappear and hurt clients as the next person.  Perhaps more so because that individual has hurt the image of our chosen profession.  If you'd like to contact me, I'd be happy to give you the names of some good and reputable photographers in your area.


Howard Kier, Certified Professional Wedding Photographer

Magical Moments Photography


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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 10:21 PM Go to message in response to: MagicalMomentsP...

While I appreciate your prompt response I should probably give a little more information.

While we do DJ and perform the videography we have not done too many weddings and the weddings we have done have been for friends that have requested that we take pictures. In the event that a photographer would in fact tell me to put my camera away I would do so but as of yet this has not happened. I would never go against an proffessionals and fortunately I haven't run into this situation.

As I said above I was honestly looking for some must have shots that people would want and I do thank you for the information you provided.

I take the pictures more for my own personal collections rather than to offend. It just so happens that it has come in handy before.


Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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MagicalMomentsP... Posts : 742 Registered: 3/6/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 11:05 PM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

Ashley,

I'm quite confused.  In your original post you said

"OK now for the why. My FH & I DJ weddings a good bit and I take some amature shots that have many times become the only pictures some of our couples have to cherish due to faulty or fraudulant photographers and I would just like to get some ideas for things that brides and grooms alike look for. "

"DJ weddings a good bit" and "shots that have many times become the only" gives me the impression that you have been DJing a while and been at many events.   Now you are saying something completely different. "we have not done too many weddings and the weddings we have done have been for friends that have requested that we take pictures" and then say "In the event that a photographer would in fact tell me to put my camera away I would do so but as of yet this has not happened."  But why would there be a photographer at a wedding where you were asked by friends to take photos?  First you say many times at weddings and then say  we have not done too many.  I'm sooooooo confused!!!!

Anyway it really doesn't matter. What matters is professional trust.  Wedding professionals are a group that comes together to create a wonderful day for our common clients.  After the event is over we all move onto the next client.  Each professional needs to afford the others professional courtesy and trust.  

This is the same as most other teams.  For instance on each play, the linebacker trusts the safety to do his job and vice versa.  If the linebacker leaves his zone to cover for the safety, then a big play against the defense can result.  With weddings there can be other fall out.  As a photographer, I trust the DJs to do their jobs.  Part of that is informing me of when things are happening.  I can still function when that doesn't happen but sometimes, something could be missed.  

Furthermore, there are some photographers who will not say anything to you on the wedding day about your camera for fear of creating a scene at the wedding.  Upsetting a bride is the last thing any of us want to do.  So they will keep quiet at the wedding.  But, they may still be furious at your actions.  Some photographers collect vendor information before the wedding and already know who you are (or at least what DJ was hired).  Once again word will get out and it will hurt you in the long run.  If you don't want to offend any of the other wedding professionals, please give them the trust you request of them and leave your camera put away.  You can certainly have it there in case there is a situation where the photographer is not doing his job. But once again, the best way to have a photographer you trust at the event is to find some you can work with and refer your clients to them.  In the long run, you'll be rewarded with many return referrals.


Howard Kier, Certified Professional Wedding Photographer

Magical Moments Photography


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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 11:41 PM Go to message in response to: MagicalMomentsP...

I'm sorry. My FH and I work in an entertainment venue where we photograph performers, coordinate shows, and DJ as well. We have maybe done 20 weddings (only 2 of which haven't been a family member or a friend) in the 5 years we have been doing what we do so in my opinion we haven't done many weddings. I live in what most would consider a small city and the people I have/will worked/work with know that I take pictures and make their other vendors aware of the fact.  I hope that this helps with your confusion.

Thank you again for your replies. Thank you for your offer to assist me in compiling a list of reputable photographers but considering your disapproval of my practices I will decline your offer.

Again thank you for your replies.


Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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futuremrsmason Posts : 239 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 12:34 AM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

Honestly, this is like my asking you to compile a list of great dance songs because too many DJ's I know suck/ broke contract in some way...

I concur with MMP: Seek to compile a list of reputable photographers...

I, too, am confused, though - why are you wanting our input on this? are you wanting to get into photography or something? Otherwise, I don't get it...
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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 12:54 AM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

Well it was a future option to possibly offer to my future clients but at this point I am just going to end this whole thing by saying thank you to both of you.

Also to answer your question I am asking because who knows more about what brides want to see than well BRIDES.

I can't believe that instead of offering help I am getting hit with lectures...Things around here have changed quite a bit since I was on here last I guess


Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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futuremrsmason Posts : 239 Registered: 3/21/08
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 1:03 AM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

First, I am a bride.

Second, I'm professional enough to ask how I lectured you - all I said was compile a list of REPUTABLE PHOTOGRAPHERS. It takes a heck of a lot more than a camera to be called a photographer, just as it takes more than an ipod and a mic to be a DJ...

MMP does give lectures, but it makes sense to talk about the legal logistics behind something, especially of this nature. Vendors get down right territorial - you should semi-know this.
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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 1:19 AM Go to message in response to: futuremrsmason

I am sorry for my implication that you personally lectured me. I am very happy to know the legalities and have no problem with that. I do however have a problem with beating a dead horse so-to-speak.

Again thank you.

And to be clear never once did I claim to be a professional photograher but I did state that I am an amature and that at a later time this is something I MAY want to add to our list of services. I not once stated that I was calling myself a photographer just because I own a camera. (Which is professional grade by the way) I just asked brides to give me an idea of what they like or liked when it came to bridal pictures.

I am well aware of the fact that vendors are territorial but I have never in my life seen there be a fuss about someone taking pictures at a wedding. This is liike saying that Aunt Charlotte with her disposable is underminding a proffessional photographer's abilities.

If noone else responds that is quite alright. I think that I will just do my own research and keep this whole discussion in the back of my mind.

I have already given my thanks for opinions so I dont feel as though this post will warrant yet another.

Oh what the hell

THANKS


Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 1:46 AM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

I could have saved myself a whole lot of head ache by checking out the photography section on this website and then asking questions later if i had them.

Just in case there is still confusion this is what I was looking for when i originally posted

Pre-ceremony

  • Bride's gown before she slips it on
  • Bride having her hair styled and makeup applied
  • Candid shots of the bride and her 'maids getting ready
  • Bridal party reacting to the bride in her gown
  • Bride heading to the ceremony site
  • Bride and her father just before walking down the aisle
  • Groom with his father
  • Candid shots of the groom and groomsmen getting ready
  • Groom heading to the ceremony site
  • Dramatic on-site landscapes (such as stormy skies, lush woods, fields of flowers)

Ceremony site

  • Exterior and interior of the ceremony site before guests arrive
  • Guests arriving
  • Bridal party arriving
  • Musicians performing
  • Family members being seated
  • Processional and recessional
  • Bride and her father (or escort) walking down the aisle
  • Groom reacting to bride walking down the aisle
  • Father giving the bride away
  • Wide shot of the altar/chuppah
  • Bride and groom reciting their vows
  • Bride and groom exchanging rings
  • The couple's first kiss
  • Bride and groom being introduced to their guests as a married couple
  • Bride and groom exiting their ceremony site
  • Receiving line
  • Bride and groom in their getaway car

Reception site

  • Exterior and interior shots of the reception site before guests arrive
  • Table settings
  • Menu, escort, and table cards
  • Guests signing the book
  • Escort-card table
  • Food stations and bar setup during cocktail hour
  • Bridal-party table
  • Bride and groom cutting the cake
  • Wedding-party entrances
  • Guests seated at their tables
  • Bride and groom's first dance
  • Toasts and blessing (if applicable)
  • Father-daughter dance
  • Mother-son dance
  • Band or DJ
  • Guests dancing
  • Bouquet and garter toss, anniversary dance
  • Candid shots throughout the night
  • Bride and groom send-off

Formal portraits

  • Bride and groom, each alone
  • Bride and groom posed together
  • Bride and groom with wedding party
  • Bride with her family
  • Groom with his family
  • Bride and groom with bride's family
  • Bride and groom with groom's family
  • Both families together
  • Bride with her mother
  • Groom with his father
  • Flower girl and ring bearers with bride and groom

 

Close-ups

  • Bridal bouquet
  • Boutonniere
  • Shoes
  • Details on the bride's gown
  • Details on the groom's attire such as cuff links
  • Jewelry
  • Ceremony programs
  • Centerpieces
  • Hors d'oeuvres
  • Specialty drinks
  • Wedding cake
  • Favors

Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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MagicalMomentsP... Posts : 742 Registered: 3/6/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 3:15 AM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

Ashley,

There are a couple of things you don't seem to quite understand about professional wedding photographers.  First we care tremendously about the responsibility placed in us to preserve those precious memories.  There is only one chance to photograph a first kiss or first dance.  It has to be right the first time.  

We know there are frauds and unqualified photographers out there ruining people's memories.  It reflects poorly on my profession.  Some people do this intentionally and other don't know better.  I'd like to believe that you just didn't know the right way to enter the profession of wedding photography.

By your own words, you have exposed yourself to be a wedding photographer's worst fear.  Somebody with a camera who wants to be a wedding photographer.  For if you were a DJ just worrying about the missing photos, then WHY would you list photos that are taken Pre Ceremony, During the Ceremony, Formal Portrait and Close Ups?  Those photos would be taken long before the couple shows up at the reception hall where the DJ would be.  That makes me think it was your intention to offer wedding photography from the start.

The other thing you may not understand about wedding photographers, is that we are willing to help those who want to help themselves.  In other words, had you come to this forum and said," I'm thinking of becoming a wedding photographer but don't know where to start", you would have received a totally different reaction and set of answers.  After all, if you are sick, you don't ask the other patients to diagnose your problem.  You goto a trained expert, the Dr. 

Finally to address one other concern you mentioned about my "lectures" That's part of my role here on the photography forum.  I'm one of the subject matter experts who volunteers my time on the forum to provide professional answers and opinions when needed.  Since I joined this forum I've helped the Celebration Studios clients understand the fraud being pulled on them, answered many questions about photography and pointed several album DIYers to Sommerset Albums.  I also try to provide complete answer with both sides of the issue, and my advice.  In the end, I hope I've provided the reader with enough information to make an informed decision.   Sometimes, it does require a lecture type post in order to convey all of the information.

If you are really interested in becoming a wedding photographer, there is a right way and a wrong way to do this.  Should you do this the wrong way you will upset a lot of your peers.  While you are getting established they can steer clients away from your DJ business, costing you business.  After you are established, these are the same people who can and will actually refer clients to you.  

After all that has been said, I'd like to think you just didn't know how to get started.  As such I can understand your mistake and forgive you.  I'm willing to let bygones be bygones.  If you are still thinking about becoming a wedding photographer, I'd still be willing to discuss it with you and point you towards many good resources to help you along you way.


Howard Kier, Certified Professional Wedding Photographer

Magical Moments Photography


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CyclistLover Posts : 1,183 Registered: 7/9/07
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 10:32 AM Go to message in response to: Ashleyl525

Hey Ashley - Magical Moments dude has forgiven you!!  I'm sure you can sleep better now!!  LOL

Happiness is a puppy greeting you at the door!

I hope you don't get hit by a city bus Cool

 


Message was edited by: CyclistLover

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kelleyiskelley Posts : 11,590 Registered: 7/2/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 10:45 AM Go to message in response to: CyclistLover

Okay Ashley I see what you mean now.LOL. Listen - This is just a girl asking a SIMPLE question about others input on some good pictures to take at a wedding. Not exactly sure why it turned into a lecture on Photography 101. Kind of unnecessary.

Howard, I normally find your advice very helpful. I just think you are overanalyzing this particular posters question. And then to say that you "are willing to forgive her" - Huh? For what? For posing a question? This is all just a wee bit silly.

 


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Ashleyl525 Posts : 1,590 Registered: 12/27/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 11:02 AM Go to message in response to: kelleyiskelley

Right

Ashley

 
Sending Love to my Wormies!

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MagicalMomentsP... Posts : 742 Registered: 3/6/06
Re: Shots You Absolutely Had To Have
Posted: Aug 20, 2008 12:19 PM Go to message in response to: kelleyiskelley

Kelly,

I don't think Ashely was looking for a simple shot list for HER wedding. In her first post she says:

"OK now for the why. My FH & I DJ weddings a good bit and I take some amature shots that have many times become the only pictures some of our couples have to cherish due to faulty or fraudulant photographers and I would just like to get some ideas for things that brides and grooms alike look for."

From that post, she implied she was at a lot of weddings where the photographer didn't show, disappeared and never provided the photos.  She said her photos were the only ones the couple had.

In reply I tried to point out how photographers do think and that she could be hurting her DJ business by continuing to be step on photographer's toes.  Sometimes without even being aware of the animosity created.  

Next Ashley said:

While we do DJ and perform the videography we have not done too many weddings and the weddings we have done have been for friends that have requested that we take pictures. In the event that a photographer would in fact tell me to put my camera away I would do so but as of yet this has not happened. I would never go against an proffessionals and fortunately I haven't run into this situation.

As I said above I was honestly looking for some must have shots that people would want and I do thank you for the information you provided.

I take the pictures more for my own personal collections rather than to offend. It just so happens that it has come in handy before."

This post confused me because this post contradicts some of her comments in the first post.  That is they haven't done many weddings and she's been asked to be the photographer at her friends' weddings. Once again, I reiterated my first post to seek out a referral system that would benefit everybody.  For if her fear truly was bad photographers, the best way to combat that is having a good referral.

A couple of posts later Ashley say:

"Well it was a future option to possibly offer to my future clients but at this point I am just going to end this whole thing by saying thank you to both of you. "

Followed a couple of posts later by:

"I could have saved myself a whole lot of head ache by checking out the photography section on this website and then asking questions later if i had them.

Just in case there is still confusion this is what I was looking for when i originally posted" and then included a complete wedding day shot list.

To me the first of the two statements directly above show me Ashley's true intentions.  The second one shows me what she really wanted, a complete shot list.

In my mind, had Ashley really been concerned about her clients, then she would have realized good referrals would solve her clients' problems.  Instead, she continued on her path and showed me WITH HER OWN WORDS, she wanted to provide wedding photography services.  

Kelly, yes, I did start analyzing what Ashley said.  But only after the first two posts when her comments seemed to contradict one another.  This thread would have had a totally different direction and tone had Ashley been forthright and said, "I'd like to be a wedding photographer"  You, yourself said, my advice is helpful (and thank you for the compliment), and would have been no different if Ashley had said that in the first place.  But instead she disparraged the profession I'm so passionate about.  

Weddings are too important.  While it has not happened to me, I know several photographers who were not able to provide the services they envisioned because somebody with a camera was trying to build a portfolio.  I've actually had brides in tears come to me with files that were shot by somebody who didn't know what they were doing and wanted me to fix them.  I've seen the havoc an unskilled wedding photographer can create.  So if I'm a little upset because Ashley appears to be going about this the wrong way, it is because I care.  If she upsets her local peers, it may not hurt only her but also her clients.  For if she gets sick, it is her peers who will provide a replacement photographer for her.  Sometimes when photographers don't show up, it is because they couldn't get a replacement. 

Kelly, I care about my profession and I care about brides and grooms.  I hate hearing the horror stories more than you can imagine.  I'm sorry I've appeared to be wee bit silly.  I'd love to see Ashley follow her desire to become a wedding photographer.  I just want to see her do it the right way and not become another horror story with posts on this forum and others that say, "Don't Use Ashely Photography"

 

 


Howard Kier, Certified Professional Wedding Photographer

Magical Moments Photography


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