NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!

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serendipity3033 Posts : 363 Registered: 5/11/06
NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 8:41 PM

LOL... I feel like I should have started this post at 2am with a buzz on, but here goes...

 

if you have kids, WHY did you have them?  How do you feel about the world we live in?  Do you see the glass half full?  Are you religious?  I ask because part of my issues with life lie in a tremendous fear of death (ironic, huh?) and Ive noticed those that are very religious are much more accepting of death as a part of life...

 

Discuss...


 

 


Message was edited by: serendipity3033

I felt some of what I originally posted severely detracted from what I was looking for overall AND I didnt want any more readers to get hung up on that one issue.  It was the way I presented it, no doubt... heres a better way... Is it selfish to have kids, is it selfish not to, or neither, or both?  (That way we dont have WWIII) 

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Sollie Posts : 24 Registered: 4/4/08
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 9:28 PM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

I agree that this world is awful, so it's smart not to bring kids in unless you will be a good parent. Some people should not breed. People like those "OMG I want a kid to love me unconditionally sriosuly!" Undecided

 

If people don't want a child, then good for them. the world is overcrowded as it is lol. Not everyone NEEDS to be a mother/father.  


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stargazer9 Posts : 448 Registered: 12/20/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 10:54 PM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

You say a big part of your issues with life is your fear of death and that you can't see that bringing children into this awful world is good because of the conditions in the world.  It sounds to me like you are basically saying you don't have any hope for life at all, that we just live here for a short time in this world full of sorrow and then die and there is nothing more and no hope for the future.  Is that the case?

I would hate to bring children into a world where there is no hope too, however I have one so I don't worry about whether DH and I may have children in the future because I believe things are going to get better, that they will have more than just this horrifying world we live in today and I want to share that with them some day.

Maybe if you were able to find a hope you would feel more comfortable bringing another life into the world. 


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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 10:56 PM Go to message in response to: Sollie

Serendipity: As much as you say you don't want to offend, I think it's really rude to say that people who want kids are selfish.  I also think it's rude to say that people who DON'T want kids are selfish.

You know what IS selfish?  Having kids that you don't REALLY want, and then not putting them first.  That might be something to mention to the next person who offends you, because it's true.  If people don't want kids, they shouldn't have them.  They should not have them out of guilt or to try to fit some "norm", because those people do not end up being good parents!

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 10:58 PM Go to message in response to: Sollie

Serendipity: As much as you say you don't want to offend, I think it's really rude to say that people who want kids are selfish.  I also think it's rude to say that people who DON'T want kids are selfish.

You know what IS selfish?  Having kids that you don't REALLY want, and then not putting them first.  That might be something to mention to the next person who offends you, because it's true.  If people don't want kids, they shouldn't have them.  They should not have them out of guilt or to try to fit some "norm", because those people do not end up being good parents!

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Mushaboo Posts : 2,165 Registered: 3/22/08
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 11:19 PM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

I'll bite.  I can't sleep (and I don't have a buzz either) so I'll throw my life out there too.

Call me horrible if you must but the one woman in this world who should not have had a child is my FH's mom.  She never ever put him first in anything.  If he played sports, it was because neighbor families took care of it.  If he had any special times in his life, they are overshadowed by her string of boyfs taking precedence over everything.  To this day, she doesn't act motherly at all.  She'll tell him to his face he was a mistake, an interruption, and that her marriage was fine until he came along.

Now, in regards to myself, I'm not so sure I want kids.  If I do have children, I will have them at the age my mom had me.  She was 35.  She was comfortable with who she was as a person.  My parents were financially OK to bring me into the world.  My brother and I are 5 years apart.  There was never any jealousy.  My parents did a great job focusing on us as individuals.

FH and I are your normal middle class Americans with no debt (besides paying off the wedding).  Both cars and all our belongings are paid off.  We're religious.  However, I do not want to be a stay at home mom.  Childcare is around $200/week.  Then you think of all the additional child costs.  I would be working solely to pay for a child.  We would go from a comfortable middle class couple to a struggling middle class family because most of FH's bonuses and about 1/4 of my income is just play money. 

I'll put it like this.  I have my cats.  I'm responsible enough for a cat.  I could not own a dog.  I would never be home to let it pee.  I wouldn't be able to give it enough affection.  If I can't own a dog, then I don't need a child. 

That's not saying I never want children.  I'm also not saying I am selfish.  I'm not prepared to have a child.  I don't want the responsibility of being a mom.  I enjoy my life.  I am still falling in love and learning more about my FH every day (even after almost 4 years)!  So, why interrupt that when we're still learning so much about our lives together?

I despise people who have children for flippant reasons.  "It would be fun."  "My mom had me at 22 and I turned out just fine."  "Well, we've been married a year so it's time to start trying."  "Mom says she wants to be a grandma before she's too old to enjoy the kids."  "Angie, my BFF, is pregnant!"  The list goes on.  Have a baby if you want.  Just make sure you can support it, nourish it, and be the best parents you can be!!!  I get sick of seeing thousands of healthcare claims paid for by the govenment for 16 year old children having babies because "it will be fun."


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serendipity3033 Posts : 363 Registered: 5/11/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 11:23 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Stargazer... thats what I wanted to talk about... what is it that you think will get better?  Do you mean personally, or globally??  I really dont like politics, but I just think we are in such bad shape globally... I mean people hating us so much they willingly kill themselves in order to kill us... I cant tell you the fear during the time of 9/11... I actually became very angry at my parents during that time, and really, I think thats when this all started.

 

Bird... I apologize for offending, I really do... and I agree with you, both sides of the fence are rude.  I did want to put that out there though to, I guess play devils advocate... to provoke thought.  and thats my entire purpose for this thread... I want to get people thinking, talking, and I really hoped to gain insight on the other perspective, and maybe even hope (stargazer)  Smile


 

 

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 11:33 PM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

"... I mean people hating us so much they willingly kill themselves in order to kill us..."

Those people are whacko.  Can't let 'em control your emotions

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serendipity3033 Posts : 363 Registered: 5/11/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jun 30, 2008 11:51 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Got another thought provoking question...

I had this conversation with a friend of mine... someone very accepting of life, very religious, and very much wanted to have kids... totally believed the good outweighs the bad... We got to talking about my paranoia of killers hiding around corners and in bushes (why I tend to run flailing and kicking when Im alone at night... youre not taking me without a fight!!!!!)  His answer to me was that even if the maniac were to catch him, the good experiences he's had in his lifetime would far outweigh the few moments of pain that would be inflicted on him.

 

Would you agree?


 

 

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 12:35 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

Honestly, if the thread I'm thinking of is the one you are referring to, NO one stated that to not have kids is selfish.  In fact, everyone there went out of their way to state what was right FOR them.

And I think that is it.  Decide what is right for you with what you feel is best for a child.

I want kids.  I'm a 33 professional, highly educated woman, who wants kids.  I won't apologize for that.  So don't bother asking me to.


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stargazer9 Posts : 448 Registered: 12/20/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 1:24 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

Serendipity, I PM'ed you about this further.

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Retired Posts : 808 Registered: 4/17/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 8:53 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

My reason for not wanting kids IS selfish, I will admit that it is and I don't care that it is. And anyone who wants to judge me for it can just bite it.

I see things the same way my oldest sister does: I'm a "me" person. I want MY time to ME, to spend however I want to. I don't want to stop my world for a child. Some people do, and that's great - they're far better people than I am.

I am a very selfish person when it comes to my time (not my money or material things, because those things don't matter in the end) and I have no problem admitting that. I think it's better for me to admit this to myself and face the fact that I should NOT have children, than for me to have them and neglect their needs because I want to be able to go to the beach on the other coast of the state for the day (which I've been known to do just to get away for a while.) Or because I want to sit and just think for a while without disruption. Or because I want to go sit by the river for a few hours and brainstorm and write.

I'm not sorry for this, either. Some people were meant to be parents, some were not. I fit into the latter category, and there are plenty of loving, wonderful people who deserve to be parents that will have children so that the world won't miss mine.


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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 9:50 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

.....especially when people get pregnant just because their sister is and it would be "cute" to be pregnant together!!!!

I am not sure if that was aimed at me. But I re-read the other kids thread and I was the only one who mentioned my preggo sister so I am thinking it is.

Anyway, I would never, ever decide to have children based on what everyone else is doing. But there are MANY things in life that when you see someone you know and love do, you realize that if they can do it, then you can as well. Having kids is one of those things, to an EXTENT....

DH and I have talked about this and we both realize that when the time is right, then we'll go for it. Just b/c my sister is pregnant does not mean that I am ready to be. Am I ready to be an Aunt? Hell yes I am....a mom, Im not sure.

My DH and I would like to plan it out as best we can when it comes time for us and that is the furthest thing from being selfish. DH works in the financial industry and he is HUGE into saving and planning. We are not the type of people who will just jump into things, especially children.

So saying I am irresponsible or selfish to be THINKING about having a baby, or babies in general,  bc my sister is is pretty out of line.....


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MrsMcCain Posts : 580 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

I'll throw my two cents in on this topic. I do not see this situation the same way that you do serendipity. I think it's perfectly ok to not want to have kids, and that is not selfish, it is a lifestyle choice that you and your fh share, and that is perfectly acceptable. I look at having kids as giving someone the chance to live life and pursue dreams. Sure, life is not perfect and neither are parents, but that does not mean it's not worth having children and watching them grow up.

My life has been far from perfect, but I enjoy living everyday and someday I will have kids and hope that they enjoy life too.

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Beachwed Posts : 782 Registered: 9/19/06
Re: NWR- Kids, life, existence... lets get philosophical!
Posted: Jul 1, 2008 10:04 AM Go to message in response to: serendipity3033

If you are referring to the other thread, no one was fighting or calling anyone else selfish. People were posting as to why they would or would not want children, and a few of them said that their OWN reasons were selfish (myself included at this point in my life) but never called anyone ELSE selfish. There's two ways to approach this topic, the other thread did it by asking an honest question and people respecting each other, this thread came out with guns blazing and a dispute wanting to come out. Just to point that out.

As far as your other question, I think it's a pessimist vs optimist.  This is how you look at life in general. I have had a lot of bad things happen to me, a lot of sickness and death in my family. Each time a person that I loved and cherished passed away, I thought that there were two ways to look at it. One would be to grow angry for ever knowing the person, as this pain will stick with me forever and wish that I had never known the person, resulting in never knowing this pain. Or the other way (my way) was to hug that person and laugh and cherish all the memories with them. Pain is inevitable in our lives at one point of another, I choose not to fear it at every moment and enjoy life to the fullest. When that pain comes, I'll deal with it at that time, but I'm not going to avoid having children just so that they don't have to see bad things in this world. The joys far outweigh the sadness, at least in my world.

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

 

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