Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)

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BlueBoxBlueShoes Posts : 49 Registered: 2/15/10
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 12:59 AM Go to message in response to: wdubin

I don't think he is giving excuses. I think he's pretty much told the OP when he will pop the question:

1. Next year, after his family celebrates his sister's new marriage. (Note: You won't be marrying just him. You'll be marrying his family. Watch a couple of episodes of Everybody Loves Raymond and think about it.)

2. He wants you both to have family cars.

3. He wants to have a nicer wedding than you could have this year. It's his wedding too.

His time line isn't off based for kids. You're 28. That puts you at having kids by 33, which depending on your community/area is perfectly normal (especially since most people are getting graduate degrees of some kind or waiting until a certain level of professional success to have them). You've been dating 2.5 years and living together for one.

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ArtBride Posts : 4,838 Registered: 5/9/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 8:22 AM Go to message in response to: Beeble

I never said I was waiting for these things. We make decent money, have a home, schedules have nothing to do with getting married, and I'd be fine getting married in our backyard surrounded by dog and horse crap and surrounded by close family, our parents, my grandparents, and if possible, our siblings. All I'm really waitng for is him.

Right, yet all these quotes are from your previous posts:

Then he said well it definitely won't be this year, his sister is getting married.

My SO said well doesn't want to bother his parents with 2 weddings in a year,

So then his sister is buying a house next year, will be too broke to spend the money to fly back here after wedding and house buying.

So then I said, since you want your sister there the year after that is out, then I asked what if she gets preg and can't fly then doesn't want to fly 26 hours with a baby/toddler etc.

He would love to have a destination wedding, but I have told him that I really want my grandparents there.

I'm the only girl of all the grandkids and they really want to see me married, and also my best friend a SAHM who could never afford or be able to leave the country for a wedding.

So he went to his friend's house that day, worked on the car and talked about whatever with his 40 year old unmarried friend and has now decided to fix up his sports car for now and not worry about a family car.

I'm now fairly certain that money is his major concern - he had also mentioned that if we won the lottery (but not enough to quit working) one of the first things would be to have a baby and go on mat leave....

Why is he the only one that isn't on the same page yet?

You may say that money and other people's schedules have nothing to do with it, but it sure sounds like you're planning around both of those things. Most of these things are his excuses, not yours - I'll give you that - but that doesn't change the fact that YOU are accepting these excuses. You are not getting married now, in a lowkey affair in your backyard with family as you say you want. Instead, you are allowing his excuses to dictate your future. You may not WANT to wait until you have the perfect amount of money saved or your family's schedules work out perfectly, but by accepting his excuses, that's exactly what you're doing.

I'm just saying that you need to do some thinking. This man is fine talking about 'someday' and 'eventually', but when the time comes to act on those vague plans, it seems like he's waiting until all the stars align. And I know he's saying that EVENTUALLY you'll stop planning around his sister, and that SOMEDAY he will buy a family car and that you'll have kids before he's done paying it off, but nothing that you've posted here indicates that he's taking actual steps (beyond talking) in that direction. Actions speak louder than words, and there's a pattern here that you'd be a fool not to recognize. So please, do some serious thinking about how long you're willing to wait for this man to stop talking and start acting.

DaisypathWedding Ticker

Vice President and Guardian of the Toilet Brush of POOP: People Offended by Offended People

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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 9:55 AM Go to message in response to: Beeble

Beeble, what I am not understanding here is why are you letting him give you all these vague answers and not taking more control of the situation? You have been with him for a while, live together and you ask him questions like "will we have kids before the car is paid off?" to judge his reponse? Makes no sense. Last time I checked YOU were a part of the relationship, no? I think you need to realize you DESERVE to know the answers to your questions. And I think it's a red flag when you say you won't bring it up b/c it starts a fight. Or that you are afraid to start a fight. What is there to actually fight over? Talking about your future should be an exciting learning experience. There really is nothing to fight over. It sounds to me like you don't actually WANT the answers b/c you are afraid it's not going to be what you want to hear.

New Jersey: We have dumps, bays and cement boots and we know how to use 'em

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 11:17 AM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

What would you think about guiding the conversation in this direction, allowing him to say his piece...

So, I know we have talked a bit about weddings and getting married, but I'm still not sure we are on the same page here. I know for certain that I'd love to spend the rest of my life with you. We have been living together long enough to get to know each other's ways and although we each have our little quirks we get along fantastic! I feel that you still want to wait a few years to get married, and I want to start our life together much sooner than that. I feel like I don't have any say in the timeline because I have to wait for you to ask me, but I'd like to see if we can reach a decision here that makes us both happy. Why do you want to wait so long to get married?

If he says Money/Ring
Ring: I love the jewelry you have gotten me for Christmas, but as you said before the jewelers offers a trade up program and we can use that to trade in/up for a ring. Either that or we can ask my mom for my grandma's rings. If you are worried about picking something that I like, we can go together.

If he says Money/Wedding
We've talked about not wanting a really expensive elaborate wedding, and we are both pretty thrifty, so if we want to get good deals it's better to plan further ahead. I'm already putting money away every payday, and if we can get a general idea of how much we want to spend we can start aiming for that goal. I know my parents will be happy to help out with costs, but if we plan something we can afford on our own, any help that we get will be a bonus.

If he says, Doesn't want to have kids yet but certainly wants sometime
I know there are a few more things we need to get in order before we definitely are ready to have kids, but let's cross that bridge when we get to it. I'd just like to talk about getting married to you right now.

Approval from parents: Both your parents and mine are thrilled that we are together and have told me that they approve. I'd love it if you would as my dad's permission, if you haven't already.


Waiting till after his sister's wedding:

Your sister and I have been talking and she said she would be thrilled if we got married when they are here, but assured us that no matter when it happens they will definitely make the trek to be here.


What should I say if he just says something like, I don't know?

AM

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ArtBride Posts : 4,838 Registered: 5/9/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 8:44 AM Go to message in response to: Beeble

It's good to get your thoughts together, but keep in mind that you can't anticipate and prepare for every possible response he might make. What you've got seems reasonable, but you'd know better than any of us how your boyfriend would respond to all this. As for what to say if he says he doesn't know or he just isn't ready, how do YOU feel about it? We can help you work out your thoughts on the matter, but we can't answer that for you.

If you want my honest opinion, from what I've seen here, this man just doesn't sound like he's ready or interested in marriage yet. And it would be stupid of you to push him into it. That's not what you want, anyway. You want him to WANT to marry you. You don't want to talk him into marrying you. At least, I wouldn't want that.

If I were you, I would forget the getting married this year argument. So what if his sister is Ok with it? You're missing the consent of a key person - the groom. It's fine to have a talk about where you both see your future headed and to hammer out a rough timeline, but don't push him into getting married or having kids before he's ready. I don't know whether you talk to him the same way that you talk here, but honestly, if I was dating you and you talked this much about marriage and kids that I wasn't quite ready for, it would turn me off, too. You obviously want this very much - and that's fine. But it really doesn't sound like it's what he wants right now. By all means, talk to him - it sounds like you're due for a serious talk on this topic - but use the conversation as a means of figuring out what HE wants, not pushing what YOU want on him. Once you have an idea of what he wants, discuss ways to compromise. Perhaps you're not as far apart as you fear and there's a way to compromise - but if you want to get married now and he wants to wait another five years, there's no compromising. Don't force him to get married before he is ready, because that won't end well. Your choices, in that case, are either to wait for him (taking the chance that he might continue to make excuses) or to move on with your life and find someone who has the same goals as you on a similar timeline.

You've talked a lot about what HE wants and about how you're willing to compromise, but you haven't answered the question that PP's, including myself, have posed to you. How long are you actually willing to wait for this man? You need to have an idea of this in your head before you go into this conversation. If you're willing to wait forever, none of this matters. At what point will you be ready to cut your loses and move on? If you don't answer this question to yourself before you go into this conversation, you'll just be continuing to let him dictate your future. I don't believe that a woman's future should hang on a man, and it doesn't sound like you like it much, either. You're waiting for HIM to propose. You're beating around the bush, trying to figure out his feelings on this without asking him directly. (Really? Asking him whether his car would be paid off before you had kids, as if YOU have no choice in the matter?) You've been very passive about this subject so far, but it sounds like you know that it's time to take action. Don't leave it all up to him, as these are things that affect both of you and your future life. Unless you plan to be unequal partners, you really need to start discussing these things as a couple instead of hinting and beating around the bush. Normal couples discuss their future regularly and make their opinions known.

As far as this discussion goes, you need to steer clear of pushing him to get married now, but you need to make your opinion known and find out his. Know, going into the conversation, your own feelings on waiting longer than you want to - and have a deadline in your head about how long you're willing to invest in this relationship. Whatever excuses he gives you, make a solid plan to readdress the issue in a few months (judge the timeline for yourself, based on how long he says he needs. It might be two months, or it might be a year - but set a date to discuss the issue again). Then don't say a word about it until that date. Don't make plans for things that aren't happening. You don't need a family car five years before you have a family. You don't need to have your wedding planned three years before it's happening. Donate all that baby stuff you're storing. You're trying too hard and planning too much. You know how some couples try to get pregnant for months and fail, yet they get pregnant the month they relax and stop trying so hard? The same can be said for marriage. Relax about it, stop planning so much, and likely the idea will start appealing to him more.

Good luck and let us know how the chat goes!


DaisypathWedding Ticker

Vice President and Guardian of the Toilet Brush of POOP: People Offended by Offended People

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 11:17 AM Go to message in response to: ArtBride

Ok great! Now I have some stuff to work with. Tonight I'm just going to deal with the issue with the dogs in bed (one of them has started drooling in her sleep and in the last week and I have moved out to the couch a few nights after rolling into a pool of slobber. One night we both moved out to the couch) I'm telling him either he can choose to sleep with me, or sleep with the dogs. If he chooses the dogs i'm out. When we have the other conversation this weekend if he says he doesn't want to get married still for 2+ years, I"m out.

I do have a backup plan, my best friend had a room just recently open up in her house so if he decides he wants to sleep with the dogs, or that he wants to wait an unreasonable (in my mind) amount of time. I have somewhere to go and can move out.

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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 11:36 AM Go to message in response to: Beeble

I think your thoughts sound good. But please don't compromise what YOU really want just to get him to agree to getting married sooner rather than later. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting a "real" engagement ring, or wanting a more elaborate wedding. Don't sell yourself short on those things just to get him to go with your plan.

I think I've just seen these things happen so much on these boards and in real life and it makes me sad. Some women (in general, not you) just want the Groom. They dont care WHO he is, but they;ll just take what they can get. And in those regards they will take a gumball ring, or a courtroom wedding, when that's not really what THEY want. There is nothing wrong at all with those things, but if this is going to be a one time deal--you getting married--then you need to do it EXACTLY how you want to...


Beeble, what do YOU want in your heart of hearts?? We still haven't really heard...

New Jersey: We have dumps, bays and cement boots and we know how to use 'em

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 12:46 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

NJ

Most of all I want to know for sure that he wants me as bad as I want him.

As far as the other details go, there are a few things that I would want. I live with my SO out at his house, WAY out of the city. I work in the city, hour drive each way if not more. I'd like to know this relationship is for good, i'd get a job closer to his house, cut my commute and my $500 a month gas bill in half, not to mention car maintenance etc. There are a lot of good postings this week, I'll send out my resume anyways, I can always turn down depending on how this weekend goes. I have asked him, and he has encouraged me to apply for stuff out there, not going to read into that.

I want to have a family. Husband 4 ever, and 2 kids. I have many friends with kids who have not been married when they had them, split from their BF and it's TERRIBLE on the kids (i'm close friends with the kids and they spill the beans to me). Both my SO and I have parents who are still together and strong family values. That's one of the things I really adore about my SO, he is very close with his parents and our parents get along with each other very well, we don't have any "crazies" in our families etc. He is also FANTASTIC with kids, he says if they are not having fun then he is not doing his job. It's great to watch him run around the gym with the kids, they all love him and we can't go anywhere with some kid saying HEY THAT'S THE BOY FROM GYMNASTICS or the parents coming over to thank my SO for what a wonderful job he does with the kids. He has students that come an hour from the city just so that they will have him for a coach. I know he will make a fantastic dad someday. It would be hard to find anyone as great as him, and I'm not exactly the pretty girl that bats her eyelashes and can land whoever she wants. We both want 2 kids, but I'd like to start sooner rather than later because I know it took my parents 7 years of trying to get me after having my brother. My brother's son was born with a disability and I know the older you are the greater the chances of that happening and that SCARES me. I have definately told him exactly this and how I feel.

I had never been one of those girls that dreams about the details of her wedding, not when i was 5 not when i was 18 and certainly not before I met my current SO. It wasn't until I decided that I wanted to marry this man that I started dreamily looking at these kinds of things on the internet.

Yes, I would like a pretty ring. I have and idea in my head of what I want. I have tiny long fingers, and just want something small that's not going to get caught on stuff. I have my eye on a cute little one from ben moss, they have been making it for many many years, so it's not like it's going to be gone anytime soon. It's $600 for the set. I have not shown my SO- sent a wishlist or whatever cause I don't want to pressure him.

Yes, I do want a chance to wear a pretty wedding dress, but I don't want to spend a fortune on one (thinking say yes to the dress) so I don't mind getting one second hand or even renting. However I do have one in mind so to find it second hand in my size would take time. I'm sure everyone has seen this one it's a top seller. I love Alfred angelo, i have several very nice christmas dresses from Alfred, they are made well and they fit me fantastic without alteration.


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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 1:40 PM Go to message in response to: Beeble

Dear Beeble,

It seems like every time I visit this message board section, I say the same thing. Here goes, again:

Take some time to yourself and do some thinking. Think about what you want. Marriage, children, nice place to live.

Next question: For how much time are you willing to wait for this one guy to get on the same schedule?

OK, now let's work backward. Worst case scenario: you get dumped by your current boyfriend. How long would it take to (1) meet a new guy (2) date for a while (3) fall in love (4) get engaged (5) get married and (6) have a certain amount of child-free newlywed time before getting pregnant?

A couple of years? Three years? Five years? Let's settle on three years. (Let's also remember how long you've been with Current Boyfriend, and he's not yet "ready".)

Next, how old do you want to be when your first child is born? Figure into this any desire for more children, the spacing you would like to see between children and the age you want to be when your last child is born.

For the sake of discussion, let's say you want to be about 33 when Number One is born, and finish by the time you are 38.

Do the math. If you get dumped today, assuming you have three years from now to meet, fall in love, get engaged and marry some new man. That puts you at 28+3 or 31 when you marry Mr New Guy. That gives you 2 years of child-free newlywed life before your get-pregnant deadline of 33 rolls around.

OK.... now with all this in mind, counting backwards from the point you would hope to conceive your youngest child, etc., how long can you afford to stay in the relationship you are in now, ASSUMING HE CONTINUES TO DRAG HIS FEET?

I'd say you only have a couple of years.

Now, with all this in mind, set yourself a personal, private, known-only-to-you deadline.

I don't care what it is, just keep your own goals of marriage, childbearing and future life in mind. Sit down with pencil and paper, sketch out some timelines, and come up with your own deadline.

Don't say anything about it to your boyfriend. You don't want to give him an ultimatum. The last thing you need is a man who marries you because you say "Marry me by Dec 31 or I'm walking." That is a prescription for disaster.

Instead, just make a solumn promise to yourself that if your personal deadline rolls around and your boyfriend is still evasive and dragging his feet, you will bail. You will bail because his goals are not, apparently, in sync with your goals and you need time to get out there in the Singles Market and meet a marriage-minded man who can love you, marry you, father your children, be a great Daddy and make you happy for the rest of your life.


I am 56 years old, and have seen too many women go far too long waiting for their boyfriend to be "ready" for marriage. Year after year, decade after decade, they wait. Baloney.

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ArtBride Posts : 4,838 Registered: 5/9/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 2:23 PM Go to message in response to: Beeble

Beeble, I'm so glad to see your two most recent posts, because it sounds like you're really thinking about what YOU want and you have a plan in mind. Now stick to it!

AOTB also gave you some very good advice, so if there's anything there you haven't thought about yet, keep it in mind.

PLEASE let us know how these conversations go. I'm rooting for things to work out in whichever way will ultimately be best for you!

DaisypathWedding Ticker

Vice President and Guardian of the Toilet Brush of POOP: People Offended by Offended People

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Mar 31, 2010 5:12 PM Go to message in response to: ArtBride

Thanks girls,

you always have so much to say, no wonder you have so many posts! Lol

I have no internet until I get back to work on Monday now, so don't hold your breath! And don't think I just dissapeared like SWP did on the one week thing because things didn't go my way. hahaha

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ArtBride Posts : 4,838 Registered: 5/9/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Apr 1, 2010 10:14 AM Go to message in response to: Beeble

LOL, yeah, I have trouble keeping my mouth shut sometimes. That might have something to do with the number of posts. That and having been around here for 3 years or so.

DaisypathWedding Ticker

Vice President and Guardian of the Toilet Brush of POOP: People Offended by Offended People

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LOnDZ Posts : 57 Registered: 6/10/07
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Apr 3, 2010 9:23 PM Go to message in response to: Beeble

Brighter: "I'm talking yelling, crying--the whole shabam. And guess what? Here we
are a year after that and still madly in love. Sometimes we disagree,
sometimes we get mad at each other--but at least we know exactly how the
other person feels and what they are thinking. We solve problems
together. We might get a little fiery for a few minutes but then we calmly sit down and create a solution that works best for the both of
us."

Same here. After my bf and I had a fight like this, I had never felt more satisfied and confident in my relationship than I did that night. During the fight, I was telling myself that I couldn't imagine going to work the next day feeling like I was feeling -- all emotional and what not, but in the end, we both felt empowered and that we could talk about any and everything. If we could survive that, we could survive anything.

Beeble: Please give us an update. I'm in the same boat as you at the moment - minus the wanting to have children. I've been with my guy for 3 1/2 years and so now, it's the waiting game. I would never give him an ultimatum, because then the first question that would cross your mind would be if he only did because he felt pressured or if he really wanted to. Our collaborative timeline involves the next couple months having an engagement and an October wedding. I don't know if it will really happen this way, but we have a timeline and that brings peace of mind.

 

Daisypath Anniversary Years Ticker

 

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Apr 5, 2010 11:38 AM Go to message in response to: LOnDZ

I'm sorry girls but I don't have much to report after this weekend. My SO's Uncle passed away over the weekend, so I thought it best to delay the talk for a little while, at least until after the funeral this week. (Thursday??)

Anyways we think we got the dog issue semi-sorted out. Narrowed it down to this one type of cookie that we had been giving her. Threw the rest of them out. Been sleeping in my bedroom all weekend. It has a smaller bed and blankets so after figting over room and blankets I've still been sleeping on the couch most of the weekend. Got our bed cleaned and sanitized. Hopefully we can both be back in there soon.

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Beeble Posts : 306 Registered: 11/19/09
Re: Guess I'll be waiting longer than I hoped. (long read)
Posted: Apr 5, 2010 1:17 PM Go to message in response to: Beeble

Oh very strange, I just got a call from my Dad this morning, and my Aunt passed away on the weekend too. The funeral is also thursday, but it's out of town so I won't be going.

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