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Not sure how to handle this

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08divabride Posts : 832 Registered: 11/17/07
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 9:35 AM Go to message in response to: CatStandish

AOTB- you hit the nail on the head once again! I am willing to put in the hard work of raising my daughter to be respectful and mannerable with high morals and values.

The funny thing is I have been around kids all of my life and that's why I promised I would never have any! Like I said earlier, until I had one. I see my daughter in a totally different light than I see other people's kids.

Mandy, if you absolutely don't want kids, don't have them Pisses me off sometimes!


 Lilypie - (8e8A)

september_2008 , georgia , september_2009
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cyndi33 Posts : 2,585 Registered: 1/3/07
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 9:47 AM Go to message in response to: CatStandish

Cat,
Exactly! And I was not suggesting a trial run. I got the idea that he wants the commitment of a child. It could be a good program, but there is a huge shortage of big brothers especially.

But definitely should not do it if he does not want to stick to it. Anyway, it was horrible for my son. He waited so LONG for a 'big' then met the big then the big dumped him before he even officially became a big. He was removed from the program (the big); but my son was never paired with anyone. It was a crushing experience.

AOTB, I agree to a point. But sometimes kids, from good homes, make bad decisions and grow into people you don't even know or recognize. Sometimes those parents were active and involved, it happens. And the attitudes in general are much more prevalent now. I had parents who were not at ALL involved, and still me and my brother grew and learned and did not behave the way I see many behave. I experienced this personally with one child, and DH with one as well. No one knows why some grow up and start doing waht they do as teens, and we did more counseling than anyone can imagine unless they've lived it. I have clients who come from loving, caring and in tact homes too.

And yet, one child ends up in prison(which is when they may become a client of mine). It happens, and I don't blame the parents (with little kids yes, but only to a certain age/maturity level, then the choices are on the kid) unless I have enough information to do so reasonably. It simply is not the case that it is as easy as that. And regardless the family, there comes a time when the choices can't, and shouldn't be, attributed to poor parenting anyway. Things are different now, and kids can't be shielded from it all or remain unaffected by it all.




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march_2007 , september_2009
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dodgercpkl Posts : 130 Registered: 9/27/09
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 2:24 PM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

Cyndi - I agree that there are times when kids make bad decisions and it's their choice their decision and not anything that their parents taught them. Sometimes life just doesn't make sense and that's always been a truth. However I very much agree with AOTB. I've worked in various customer service type jobs for the last 16 years and I see more and more parents that bring children into a place of business, that don't want to own up to their responsibility of their own children, that think that they don't need to do anything even though their child(ren) are screaming at the top of their lungs in the middle of a workplace, that think they don't need to do anything when their child(ren) is running around, climbing furnature, playing with the elevator, making a mess of brochures etc. This is not what I call parenting, it's what I call ignoring responsibilities and neglect. I see it happen everyday.

When I was growing up, my parents wouldn't let me get away with that behavior. It didn't matter if we'd only gotten to Disneyland 1 hour before and my parents had shelled out alot of money for it, if my brother and I acted up and wouldn't listen to my parents, then we lost our fun day. My parents would pack us up and take us home. Let me tell you, it only took once for us to realize we didn't want that to happen ever again! Same went for anywhere we went.

While I admit there are definitely exceptions to the rule, there are an awful lot of kids out there that are not getting the attention, structure, and discipline that they need, and for that, the parents are at fault.

As to the op, if children aren't what you want, I very much agree that you should stick to your guns. Not everyone needs to have children and it is a very personal commitment that both people have to agree on. Best of luck! I hope everything works out with you and your DH! :)

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march_2007 , september_2009 , southern_california
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myra Posts : 5,555 Registered: 3/28/06
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 4:09 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

The kids who don't get the memo are kids whose parents let them, essentially, raise themselves.

AOTB has that right! As amother of grown kids, a high school teacher, psychiatrist's wife, and general observer of humanity, I just had to speak up for children. Not all teenagers are disrespectful, out-of-control housewreckers! You have to raise them. They don't raise themselves. Yes, it's work (most good things are), but the rewards are infinate.

But, if you don't want them, then you don't want them. It's entirely up to you. I second (or third) the idea of getting your tubes tied. It's easy and painless (I know because I did it). But, it's permanent and not for those who have any doubts at all. It also means that this is your decision. You're leaving the door open to your husband, should he change his mind in the future or if, heaven forbid, something should happen to you and he remarries.
myra at www.classysassyweddings.com

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MandyandVance Posts : 650 Registered: 4/10/06
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:21 PM Go to message in response to: myra

I don't know if Vance would be interested in being a big brother but I would discourage him from doing it for exactly the reason Birdlover said - that it is a comittment and I wouldn't want him changing his mind half way through or realizing he doesn't have the time.

Mushaboo, if I accidentally got pregnant........I don't know what I would do. We have talked about getting Vance fixed but we never got around to it but now I am seriously thinking of getting my tubes tied.....but I am a bit afraid of surgery!

I just want everyone to know that I will definitely be sticking to my original plan and not having kids. Even though I asked for advice on this sticky situation I just want it to be clear I am not thinking about having a kid to please him. That would be a huge mistake on my part.

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Colelle Posts : 48 Registered: 6/21/09
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 10:05 PM Go to message in response to: MandyandVance

He seems afraid to talk to you about it. You have said that you were very angry and upset that he may be changing his mind, and have made that known to him. In my experience with my fiance`, even if something is important to him he will NOT want to discuss it with me if he feels like I'm putting him on the defensive or going to rip at him. If your husband thinks you're just going to get angry and not hear him out at all I can see why he wouldn't want to bother talking to you. Nobody wants to feel like that. My fiance` and I had a career plan for both of us worked out (due to him going to med school) and I started to change my mind. He got angry and upset about it, and I shut down. I felt like he didn't care what I thought and that I would have to go along with him to make him happy. We worked it out, but it took a lot of listening and patience.

If I were you, I would sit him down, and instead of immediately reminding him of ALL the reasons you don't want kids, the fact that you discussed it, blahblah I would tell him that I have noticed that he seems to be changing his mind. I would ask him to tell me exactly what is on his mind, about how he has been feeling about it lately, how he views our relationship, and how he views spending a lifetime without having any children. Tell him that you will listen without interrupting, and that you truly want to know and that you will not attack him for what he is thinking (if you are thinking of ways to 'stick to your guns' instead of trying to understand him why should he bother talking to you?). The most important thing is to listen. Not so that he can persuade you, but so that you can make him feel safe, that you're not going to pitch a fit (he'll shut down immediately, trust me I know, my guy will NOT deal with me with I'm like that) or interrupt or judge him (again, he probably doesn't want to face you getting angry again). Stay calm, don't fly into a rage or anything.

Just as you don't want him to bully you into doing something you dont want you should show him same courtesy. You won't find out where he's really at if you come at him with claws bared you know? Be sincere, and let him talk. Listen. Do not interrupt him (I must repeat this, I still have a hard time with it lol). He obviously knows your views, it seems highly unlikely that you need to remind him. You're the one that's in the dark about HIS feelings right?

The fact about life is that people change. They change their minds. It may not seem fair but you'll have to get over it and figure out how to how to get back on the same page (better use of time I think). He is getting older, and maybe when he was younger he couldn't see himself as a father but now as the years go by and your friends are starting their own families he can now envision it.

I would recommend The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert by John Gottman. It has really good tips on how to communicate effectively (how to bring up touchy topics, working through them, etc.). There are also a lot of good counseling books on amazon.

I'm not saying that you need to give in and have a kid, but definitely listen to what he has to say. You did indicate that you want to know his feelings on the issue. Give him a chance to tell you without judgement or anything, you may learn some new insights on him that you really didn't know before. :) Even if you still disagree, at least he'll feel like you at least heard him out and really sought to understand him.

Good luck, and I really hope you two can work it all out so you are both feeling heard and happy about the outcome!

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,462 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 24, 2009 10:54 PM Go to message in response to: Colelle

The fact about life is that people change. They change their minds. It
may not seem fair but you'll
have to get over it and figure out how to
how to get back on the same page (better use of time I think).

Sure it happens - but if I enter into a relationship with an expectation (in my case, we will have kids TOGETHER) and he backs out - I'm out. I wouldn't date anyone who DIDN'T want kids - this was established for me before I fell in love with DH. Maybe that's clinical, maybe I wouldn't give 'him' a chance - so be it.

I knew this couple, friends with my aunt and uncle - I don't know their background, i.e. who discussed what, but I know she wanted kids, he didn't - no kids, her choice to give in to him - it was worth it to her. He left her for a woman with 5 kids. She thought about it and knew that she wanted a child - she went through a sperm bank, has a gorgeous daughter, met another guy when her daughter was less than 1 year old - they married, he adopted her and that was that.

Again, yes, people change. But just because my husband changes and decides he is going to be unfaithful and screw a buunch of people does not mean I have to sit there and take it. I am of the opinion that if one breaks the contract of the heart and union, then the other is NOT wrong wo break that union.

Yes, that is a crazy, drastic scenario - but no less true.

That said, Mandy - I really think that you and your DH could benefit from talking with a counselor to make sure that you are communicating - that way you know what he is saying, not reacting - i.e. a controlled environment.

 

 

 

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Colelle Posts : 48 Registered: 6/21/09
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 25, 2009 2:49 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl


//Sure it happens - but if I enter into a relationship with an
expectation (in my case, we will have kids TOGETHER) and he backs out -
I'm out. I wouldn't date anyone who DIDN'T want kids - this was
established for me before I fell in love with DH. Maybe that's
clinical, maybe I wouldn't give 'him' a chance - so be it.//

Precisely. They'll have to decide if they can work through this. Again, it's not fair, but as my dad says life isn't fair. People age and have different experiences and their perspectives on life and what they want adapt with it. Instead of dwelling on the 'it's not fair we talked about it' I thought it'd be more productive to talk it out. Itd be the same if it were the other away around, if she wanted kids and he was starting to change his mind.

I would def. not say that you have to 'live with it' if the guy you're married to turns into a cheater or something, that's twisting my words just a bit I think. I don't think I ever said you have to lie down and live with the other person changing their mind on huge life-altering issues. I said that you have to get over the 'life isn't fair!' mentality and figure out how to DEAL with it and resolve it and not just be upset for infinity (that accomplishes zilch).

I had a friend that ADAMANTLY insisted she never, ever wanted kids. Told me it was not even a consideration, not ever. She wanted nothing to do with kids. Didn't really like being around them either. Even got a huge tattoo right across her stomach, since there was 'no way' she would have kids and so never needed to worry about it stretching with pregnancy. Yep, now years later she wants to have kids after she gets married. Fortunately she didn't change her mind mid-marriage so it's not nearly as complicated.

I also have a few friends that have the same issue with religion. Went into marriage together on the same page (with both claiming anything different would be a deal breaker), and then a couple years later one of them has some sort of epiphany and wants to convert to something completely different. That can be just as rough from what I've seen, but what can you do? You have to work through it.

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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 25, 2009 3:12 PM Go to message in response to: Colelle

Mandy - if you are afraid of surgery, why not go in for a consultation, to find out exactly what the surgery would entail? It might makes you less freaked out (or more, in which case, you'll know your answer!)

If your guy is not so sure about the kids thing, I DEFINITELY wouldn't have him get a vasectomy. Because, like someone else said, and as morbid as it sounds, what if, say, you die, and he marries someone else who does want kids, and he does change his mind...then he's in a pickle. Which is why IF anyone wants to do a more permanent type of birth control, it should be the one who definitely doesn't want kids.

With that said, if BOTH don't want kids anymore, I firmly believe it should be the man to get "fixed". It's a much less invasive procedure for a male, with less risks and less complications :) But that's kinda a tangent.

I must admit something, and it is NOT a judgement, just somethign that confuses me....if someone 100% doesn't want kids (like, isn't remotely interested at ALL) and they accidentally get pregnant, why would they choose to parent that child? I mean, to be, it's perfectly fair to not want children, even if you do become pregnant accidentally. Anyway...just my thoughts...

That, of course, is also something to discuss with a future mate. If he says "well, if it happens, it happens" and you say "well, then I'd get an abortion" and he freaks out...then the two people are obviously not on the same page.

So much to think about. Maybe some brides-to-be will gain some insight from this thread too...



Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,357 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Nov 26, 2009 1:45 AM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

Dear Cyndi,

" But sometimes kids, from good homes, make bad decisions and grow into people you don't even know or recognize."

Absolutely true. You have your best chance of ending up with a good adult child if you do your best to be a good parent, though.

I agree 100% that there are no guarantees.

You just have to do your best and cross your fingers! (I also recommend prayer. Lots of prayer.)

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smthwu123 Posts : 1,415 Registered: 9/13/12
Re: Not sure how to handle this
Posted: Sep 13, 2012 5:42 PM Go to message in response to: MandyandVance

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