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Swine Flu and You

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,462 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 11:27 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Actually Bird, a better comparison is Strep Throat. MOST people get strep and can fight it off on their own.

So WHY do they give out antibiotics (and not just because it's bacterial so the antibiotics are effective) but strep can be very dangerous to a small population of people.

Just saying.

Also, the chicken pox virus can live along your nerves and, actually - I thought, even if you get chicken pox you can get shingles or other nerve issues because it can flare up - sort of like Lyme Disease (which is different but similar) - and is another one that I will get vaccinated for if they ever come up with a vaccine.


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anne11235813 Posts : 58 Registered: 11/15/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 11, 2009 4:06 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

bird, don't worry, you don't come off as judgemental, basically because you put reasons and arguments to your opinion. And as long as a person can argument as you do, I am respecting the opinions.

But on one point you get me wrong (maybe I didn't make myself clear enough): It's not that I don't give a sh*t about the random person on the bus stop, it's just that I think that I should first consider what's good for me and after that I can consider what's good for other people. I could come up with a not so great comparison and say that you don't have to run into a burning house to rescue somebody if it would put yourself in danger. The comparison is not untrue but of course very very extreme.

And I know that vaccines are a hot topic: Some people are totally against it, some are completely for it. I am somewhere in the middle.

My believe is that my immune system - as a child and as an adult - needs work to do in order to function right. There are a lot of studies which corroborate my opinion that if you have no germs around you as a small child you tend to develop allergies and will be sick a lot when you get older. On the other hand, people who had all the "child deseases" tend to be healthy as adults. That is why I do not do everything in my power (e.g. flu shots, even though I go to work by train) to prevent myself from getting sick. Of course it sucks to be sick (I just had a cold and I hate hate hate it if my nose is swollen and I cannot breathe...) but I am none the worse for it. And the last time that I was really sick was with strep 16 years ago.

And to get back at the chicken pox vaccine: Maybe in the US there is a better one available than here in Germany. But what I read about it is that

A. it does not protect you from the chicken pox effectively because the effect wears off quickly and all you get is a postponement of the infection to an age where complications are more likely (I agree with you that you can have the complications also as a young child - all I am relating to is the statistical distribution of complications related to age here which states that complications are much more likely when you are older)

B. there is no proof as far as I know that the vaccine cannot give you the shingles just as the actual desease could do.

Added to that the benefit of the training of your immune system I would not vaccine my child against chicken pox.

I would however vaccine it against mumps, measles, rubella, tetanus, polio, hepatitis and diphteria.

They don't give TB shots in Germany/Switzerland anymore (I had one as baby), not because there is no danger of getting TB (my husband very often treats patients in the ER who have TB. He gets told afterwards (very nice that) and then he has to take medication just in case) but because TB can be treated very well if detected. And if you are vaccinated you are always positive which means they have to make an x-ray of your chest every time. So it's actually easier if you are not vaccinated.

Besides, the TB vaccine that is available is not very good and does only help against one type of TB. However there are at least three types (maybe more, I don't know for sure).

july_2009
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Bally Posts : 355 Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 11, 2009 8:31 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

No vaccines are mandatory in Ireland otherwise I would have been forced to get them! But I haven't the faintest idea what vaccines are recommended. TB is offered as I have been offered it and declined it.

Anyways I will reply later, tea ad criossant time :D

february_2010
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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 11, 2009 11:53 AM Go to message in response to: Bally

"My believe is that my immune system - as a child and as an adult - needs work to do in order to function right. There are a lot of studies which corroborate my opinion that if you have no germs around you as a small child you tend to develop allergies and will be sick a lot when you get older"

I actually very much agree with this (and again, partly why I used to think that the Chicken Pox vaccine was a heaping pile of crap). Obviously, I think that the diseases we vaccinate against are potentially too severe to risk catching, but otherwise, I agree. I don't wash my hands before dinner, unless I'm doing something dirty/germy. Never was told to as a kid. I don't take medication when I have a cold (which really doesn't work anyway), and I don't go to the doctor if I've been throwing up for a day. I am NOT anti-medication at ALL, but I don't take it when I don't feel I NEED it. I like to give my immune system a chance to fight it first.

Of course, vaccines do work up the ol' immune system, so something to consider. And I do believe that it's shown you can't get shingles if you don't get the chicken pox, and the idea is that the vaccine would protect against that as well, by default. Or at least lower the chance of getting it. (Even here, the pox vaccine isn't as effective as other vaccines, more aimed to lower the chance of getting it and to lessen the severity. Not a terrible idea).

Bally - here's one for ya - do you pronounce "croissant" the French way or the English way? :P
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

february_2010
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MissApril Posts : 276 Registered: 1/21/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 11, 2009 4:35 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

When I had chicken pox the second time I was hospitalized. Barely remember the experience, but I remember hearing I might die and being ok with it. And I've had shingles. And I was vaccinated before all that. So... Just a thought and another reason I'm not getting swine flu vaccine. If my immune system can kill it, I'm letting my immune system kill it. I've lived through chicken pox, whooping cough and mono. All I walked away from them with was less allergies. And I understand the risks I am taking. This is my decision and if swine flu causes permanent damage, that's my fault. And about randomers, sorry. If I go arround concerned about every single person I come in contact with, I'd go insane. I do take precautions to help the general population keep safe from me, but like I said in an earlier post, we all have MRSA in our noses, so if I was that concerned about individual randomers I'd be walking arround in a HASMAT suit never touching anything, barely breathing, and being filled with a general anxiety over every face I see. And as bad as I feel about the special cases who are compromised and cannot be vaccinated, I can't worry about them when making health decisions for myself.
CoolStick your head out the window and smile for a satellite picture!Tongue out

april_2010 , illinois_chicago , february_2010
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Bally Posts : 355 Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 7:03 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I didn't realise there was a french or english way to say croissant..lol..

Ok I looked it up and I pronounce it the French way!

february_2010
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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,462 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 12:20 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Isabella, 4, is a case study in swine flu fears

Doctors expect Isabella Ragan, 4, of Tishomingo, Miss., to recover
completely from swine flu, but the previously healthy preschooler is an
example of rare complications of H1N1 infections - and every parent's
worst fears.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33243690/ns/health-swine_flu/

 

 

 

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BirdLover Posts : 2,835 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 12:44 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

So scary, Pharm!'
I know I probably sound negative saying this, but part of the reason why I am into the vaccines we have these days is because I DO think of the worst case scenerio...and I know that for me, if I didn't vaccinate and my daughter died of a rare complication, I'd blame myself. I certainly would NOT think "Well, I'm still glad I made that decision". I do NOT believe that I am somehow above having horrible, rare things happen to me or my family. It might not be a great way to live, but neither would be thinking that nothing bad can happen. Somewhere in the middle is probably ideal...wish I could get there!

Bally - my mom was a French teacher. I married a Quebecer (Quebec is Canada's French province). I've always pronounced it the French way, and when I got older, people started making fun of me!!!
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,862 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 2:15 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Bird I beg to differ with you on several points. Just because you have been vaccinated against chicken pox does not mean you won't get shingles. My kids were and my daughter still got shingles, it was not as severe as some cases but she got them none the less.

I received the MMR vaccine twice and still ended up getting measles.

You also made a statement about looking down on a person who made the choice not to seek medical attention because of religion. Who are you to pass judgement on how a person chooses to parent and/or practice their religion. It is their choice. If I were someone who believed that prayer is the answer for whatever ails my child that is my belief. In my country it is my right to practice that belief.

I don't look down on you for you parenting practices so why would you look down on someone else's. The way you choose to raise you children is between you and your husband and no one else. As is the way I parent mine. If I decide I don't want to have my child vaccinated against any disease and there are several I decided against it is my child, my business.






Kenny and me perfect together, 10 years and counting

Sucks to be you, So glad I am me

Proud Member of P.O.O.P, People Offended by Offended People

wedding websites Edited by: kennysoldwife on Oct 12, 2009 2:23 PM

Edited by: kennysoldwife on Oct 12, 2009 2:26 PM

october_1997 , southern_shore_new_jersey
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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,963 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 3:53 PM Go to message in response to: kennysoldwife

Check out this story: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/63737477.html?cmpid=15585797

In my personal opinion, one's right to practice their own religion and raise their own chilren ends when it puts a child in danger. And as the story above demonstrates, that's true according to the law of most states.

Regarding vaccinations -- I've got a very strong, very personal opinion about people who don't vaccinate their children against infectious, deadly diseases, and it's not a very kind one. Frankly, the medical crackpots who have been able to dominate the discussion on many vaccines have done our nation's children a grave disservice, and I wish the First Amendment didn't prevent us from punishing them criminally. And that's all I'll say or else I'll go on a tangent that will last forever.


__________________________________________

"I'd hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, or insanity, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,462 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 4:57 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

I'm definitely more with MrsD on this topic. Is it judgemental of me, sure, but I'm OK with that.

And Bird - most data indicates that the chicken pox vaccine is good for about 10 years, sort of like tetanus. So, for continued protection I think a person would need a 10-year booster.

 

 

 

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MissApril Posts : 276 Registered: 1/21/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 5:50 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

Just saw on the news hospitals are seeing that many patients with more serious swine flu complications tend to be obese. Just reporting.
CoolStick your head out the window and smile for a satellite picture!Tongue out

april_2010 , illinois_chicago
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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,862 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 6:10 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

That story is sad and I am in agreement that the parents should have taken him to the doctors with all of those symptoms. That does not change the fact that a parent has the right to practice their religion. They have the right to deniy vaccinations if they feel they are not in the benefit of their child.

I personally would not have my healthy child given the flu vaccine. I won't do it. A child with a compromised immune system yes, a healthy child no. I see no reason for it.

 

 

 

Kenny and me perfect together, 10 years and counting

Sucks to be you, So glad I am me

Proud Member of P.O.O.P,  People Offended by Offended People

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october_1997 , southern_shore_new_jersey
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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,462 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 6:55 PM Go to message in response to: MissApril

That's been in the news for months.

 

 

 

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MissApril Posts : 276 Registered: 1/21/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 12, 2009 7:19 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

It has? Never caught it. They're also saying hospitals are not at all ready, but I'd already heard that.
CoolStick your head out the window and smile for a satellite picture!Tongue out

april_2010 , illinois_chicago
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