Swine Flu and You

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 11:43 AM Go to message in response to: MissApril

I used to work in a doctor's office and if you called in sick nobody in the office would speak to you for like a week after you came back. The doctor I worked for (psychiatrist) came to work sick and wore it like a badge of honor. You were praised for coming to work sick and punished for ever staying home. Weird.

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FrancieElaine Posts : 654 Registered: 6/26/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 11:45 AM Go to message in response to: starfish701

Yeah, I had a little cousin get gillian barre syndrome from the 1976 vaccine. She almost died. I think that is why some people are so freaked out.

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 12:03 PM Go to message in response to: Bally

Bally - In the states you can't send your kids to public school if they don't have the required vaccinations. Depends on the schools as to what that entails, but obviously MMR, polio (I think), most require the chicken pox vacc. And I'm sure there are others as well.

Heck, you have to have an up to date vaccination record to attend college. I had to show that I had an up to date tetanus for my job. I would not have been hired if I had refused to get it. And I work at a univeristy.

 

 

 

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starfish701 Posts : 465 Registered: 12/10/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 12:04 PM Go to message in response to: FrancieElaine

Yikes! Yeah its a pretty good reason for poeple to worry. I think this time its probably safer but who knows. How much can you trust something so hastily made. Still I think I'm going to get it (or at the least the regualr flu shot) I would hate to waste my PTO on the flu.


My last job only gave you 2 days vacation a year and 2 days sick leave but then they would get mad at you if you came to work sick.
wedding tickers

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luvathena Posts : 929 Registered: 12/10/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 5:28 PM Go to message in response to: starfish701

I haven't read thru the past posts except this page, but both my kids got swine flu this summer. They were really sick. It is epidemic in the Universities and public schools right now in Cali.

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 6:03 PM Go to message in response to: luvathena

Luva - Are they both OK?

 

 

 

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 9:45 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

Relating to Francie Elaine's comment...

When the 1976 swine flu vaccine was actually investigated, they found that out of five major studies into it, only one even showed ANY link to Guillan-Barre syndrome...and it was minimal. Like a one in a million increase in risk, something like that. I'm certainly not saying that there weren't any problems with that specfic vaccine, but not nearly to the extent that people think.

The reality is, you are at greater risk for GBS if you have the flu, so the new vaccination schedule should actually caused a decrease in the amount of GBS.

I think people need to know where to do their research. Don't go buy the media as a whole. Go by public health, the Centre for Disease Control, or univeristy studies.

Bally - yes, it would be a better world! I try to live my life as selflessly as possible, and most people think I'm nuts for caring about random strangers! So I appreciate that you at least worded it like a compliment! Hee hee!

Out of curiosity, would you be more likely to vaccinate your child if you lived in an area where diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, etc. were causing serious problems? Just curious. I do get confused as to why someone wouldn't want to protect their child for some pretty bad diseases.
For example, chicken pox can actually be a very serious illness, can cause death, and it actually mutated to be a worse virus than it was when we were children. And it is SO contagious. So I'm kinda confused as to why SO many people I know are picking this one virus as the one to not vaccinate against. I'm guessing it's because most people treat it like a non-serious ailment, or don't realize that it's more serious these days? (that's how I used to think until I talked to health care providers about it) Hmmm.

Lack of education can also be bad in the health world. For example, I've heard so many times "But vaccines contain FORMALDEHYDE!! EWWW!" Well, yes, but so does the human body. And a LOT more than vaccines contain...so it's actually not gross that it's in a vaccine...Or how some people think you can get the flu from a flu shot, or Hepatitis from a Hep B shot...when really, those shots contain dead viruses is, so getting sick that way is impossible. (Though I SUPPOSE you COULD get Hep B from a Hep B shot if the needle itself was infected...lol)

I've said it before to friends in real life, and I'll say it on here...google is NOT your friend when it comes to health issues! You really can find "proof" for anything using google!

I thought I should add...the reason I type so much abotu this topic is because I belong to a couple of other forums, and this topic is discussed a LOT. And I've heard a LOT of misconceptions about vaccines, so I just in general have a lot to say :)
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 9:58 PM Go to message in response to: starfish701

Added thoughts:

1. I will never understand why employers want people to come to work sick. In the long run, it's not going to make your business run more smoothly than if one person stayed home. Because if that one person makes two people sick, and those two people make two people sick, now you've got four extra sick people dragging down the workplace, whereas if that one person had felt like they could stay home, it might have stayed at one!

2. I really have a hard time with the "it's a personal choice" thing when you're choosing it for other people. Obviuosly, children can't make decisions for themselves until a certain point (and where I live , there is no age of consent for healthcare...if they believe a 13-year-old can understand the risk of a certain treatment, she can ignore her parents wishes) but I really feel that parents should always eer on the side of caution. Give the kid the best chance shot at being ABLE to grow up so that they CAN get to a point where they can decide for themselves.

Not talking so much about a viewpoint like Bally's (since she would consent to certain vaccines to protect against things she views as most dangerous) but you know, parents who won't let their kids have certain medical procedures because of a religious belief or a parent who refuses to take their kid to a doctor when horrible ill because of a weird fear, or a parent who would refuses to "let" their 17-year-old go on birth control. At some point, you do have to suck it up and put your personal beliefs aside for the sake of that child.

For the most part, I do believe parents do what's in the best interest of their child whether it follow conventional methods or not. But unfortunately, some don't. It's those I'd look down on, not those who don't want to vaccinate for chicken pox.
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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MissApril Posts : 276 Registered: 1/21/09
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 10:58 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

When did chicken pox mutate? Just curious. I'm covered in pock marks from when I got it the second time. I was vaccinated against it, too. Did it mutate enough they had to change the vaccine?
CoolStick your head out the window and smile for a satellite picture!Tongue out

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 9, 2009 11:22 PM Go to message in response to: MissApril

April, I don't know anything specific other than "it's more dangerous than it used to be".
That, and I think shingles are horrible enough on their own, and you can't get shingles if you never had the pox, so there's a bonus to the vaccine! Or maybe it's part of the point of the vaccine...Lol. I don't actually know!

That said, I have been informed that the chicken pox vaccine does not necessarily mean you won't get the pox. It means you are a LOT less likely to get the pox, and if you do still get them, it will be a milder case than if you hadn't been vaccinated.

So I hate to think how bad it would have been for you!

I've never had a chicken pox vaccine, and I had a VERY mild case as a child, which would put me as a likely candidate for reinfection. However, I had my blood levels checked a few years ago and they show up as immune to chicken pox, so fingers crossed...

Interesting that we are talking about this, because someone just invited me over to their house, with the baby, and decided not to tell me that there is an outbreak of chicken pox in their house. Luckily I found out before I went over. Chicken pox = very hard on a baby's system!
Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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anne11235813 Posts : 58 Registered: 11/15/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 4:46 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

First of all, I think that vaccines are very important. We can be safe from deseases like diphteria, tetanus or polio. I am myself vaccinated for these, in addition to MMR and hepatitis.

On the other hand I don't believe in getting a vaccine just because it exists. For myself, I make a pro and con list and then I decide to get a shot or not.

For example chicken pox: about 95% of all people have the chicken pox when they are children or babies even. I had it when I was around 1 year old.

Like with many other deseases, children have chicken pox in a very mild form. It just itches pretty bad. Chicken pox get only dangerous when you have them as a teenager or older. But at that age, most people already had them.

This is for me the reason to believe that a vaccination against chicken pox does not make a whole lot of sense. I addition to that, you should know that the vaccine is not very good: It only holds like for 3 or 4 years (that's a lot shorter than the usual 10 years, e.g. for tetanus). So the danger to get it when you are older is very high and then the danger of complications is much higher...

I must also say that I resent the idea to get a vaccine just because I might infect any random person around me, for example the old man at the bus stop: if the old man is belonging to a risk group, then it's his own responsibility to take precautions like staying at home, or if that's not possible wear a mask or get the vaccine himself.
But I am not responsible for his health. I am responsible for my own health.

It might be different for people that work in the hospital. My husband for example works in the ER. He is vaccinated against many things. For example, the hepatitis vaccine was mandatory. The flu vaccine is not. One reason is that when you are vaccinated you can be a carrier and passing it along without knowing it. Then it's better and safer for your patients you actually get sick, notice it and stay home. With a thick underscore under "stay home". I hate it when people go to work sick and I think it should be illegal to fire somebody who stays at home because of sickness.

Really, nobody seems to remember what the rule was: after a fever stay at home at least for another three days!!!

By the way, if you get sick from a vaccine that's based on dead virus, it's most likely the non-medical components of the vaccine that you are reacting to. Like an allergic reaction. And as far as I know, the non-medical components of the swine flu vaccine are very aggressive (they used different ones compared to the seasonal flu vaccines...) so the probability that there are side-effects is high.

I really hope I don't come off as to bold here. Just wanted to put in my two cents. ;o)

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Bally Posts : 355 Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 6:08 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I'm not completely against vaccines, afterall I am vaccinated against tetnus, polio and rabies. And recently the MMR cause getting it when preggers can damage the fetus...I am against vaccinating babies at such a young age. And also, I don't think all the vaccines are needed. TB in Ireland? Non existant.

However if I lived somewhere that these diseases were rampant, yeah I would vaccinate. But again, probably not when they are tiny babies.

And its not like my mindset is 'I'm not going to protect my kid against bad diseases' cause that sounds like I'm a bad mother. Its just injecting young babies whose immune system is still developing, I just don't think its good or entirely safe. Some of the vaccines are grown in eggs, and you aren't supposed to give eggs to your baby til its a year old because of a risk to severe allergic reactions to it. My wee cousin was vaccinated and had such a bad allergic reaction he is now severely mentally disabled. He is 10 now and still in nappies and cannot even communicate. And before the reaction he was a bright and smiley baby who was progressing normally. I know these cases are few and far between but still, I'd rather wait til they are older to vaccinate.

Yes lack of education can be damaging, but so can blindly following the latest new health fad. Doctors used to think smoking was beneficial, and that completely sedating labouring women was the way to go. But we've come a long way from that. And its in the pharmacutical companies best interest to vaccinate everyone because it means profits. a lot of doctors are paid by drug companies to pedal new products. Which is why they often have 'samples' in the office. I was on one inhaler, then switched doctors and he immediately put me on a different inhaler, even though the previous one was working just fine. I wonder which company he was aligned with!?

I have to get a weekly B12 injections and the doctor won't allow me to self inject (many people do) because he gets paid £15 everytime he gives me the injection. It would be in my best interest to self inject but not in his best interest, so his wishes trump mine. Why? For profits! He makes an extra £720 ($1400) per year from injecting one person!

Anyways that was an aside and I can't remember where I was going with that..lol...

I don't think its right for a parent to choose on behalf of their child, esp to refuse lifesaving treatment. However once over 18, anyone should be able to refuse treatment if they so wish.

As another tidbit, ammonia is a by product of eating meat, so we also have ammonia in the body as well. However, I can see why people would go ewww formaldehyde, because injecting it isn't exactly the same as it being naturally produced in the body. We all make cholesterol as well, but I still wouldn't want it injected into me!

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luvathena Posts : 929 Registered: 12/10/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 12:53 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

PTG-yes-they are ok. They were both really sick. They both got high temps (104), and it stuck around in thier chests for awhile. Took a good week before they came out of the house.

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 1:25 PM Go to message in response to: luvathena

Glad to hear that they are OK!

Now since they had it do they need the vaccination?

 

 

 

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Swine Flu and You
Posted: Oct 10, 2009 10:39 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

"Chicken pox get only dangerous when you have them as a teenager or older"

This is actually a very untrue statement (sorry to pick on you, I promise it's not personal!) MOST children won't get horribly ill with the chicken pox. For MOST people, it's worse as you get older. However, a few things should be considered:

1. Chicken pox does, and will continue, to severely sicken and kill certain children. And (aside from having a child with an obvious immunie disorder) you don't know if your child will be one of the ones to react more severely. So you should know that before making your decision..chicken pox should NOT be treated lightly just because "most" children would be fine.

A comparison: most people do not get in a car accident when they go for a drive. Only a very small percentage will encounter even a minor one. Does that mean we should not put our children in car seats? Of course not, because we do not know whether or not we will be some of the unlucky few. So there's just another context...not trying to be pushy (honest) but just something to think about.

2. Shingles can be AWFUL. For many, many people. And you can't get the shingles if you've never gotten the chicken pox. So...vaccinating against pox - vaccinated against shingles.

Just some things to consider.

And as for the comments that you don't feel bad about getting "some randomer" sick because it's their responsibility to get vaccinated...I completely understand where that is coming from. But realize that some people have certain sicknesses that prevent them from getting vaccinated at the time. I know someone who had a kidney transplant last year. She couldn't get the flu shot because her immune system was so weak from medication, which also meant that the flu itself could be deadly. Short of staying home and never going anywhere, she couldn't protect herself.

I know that it seems over-the-top to consider protecting strangers, but I always think, I'd be pretty pissed if, say, my dad died because someone couldn't be bothered to get a simple vaccine, or because they were out and about when they should have stayed home.

Again, I am honestly not trying to sound judgemental, I really am just offering another way to look at things. I actually mentioned something like this once to a teacher, and she ended up getting the flu vaccine (she previously refused). Completely wasn't even trying to change her mind, it just happened that way. So there you go.


P.S. I used to think that the chicken pox vaccine was a huge waste of effort, unless your child had health problems. I've since changed my mind with more information, but I definitely can relate when some hears "chicken pox vaccine" and thinks "WTF"?

P.P.S. Bally, nothing you've said makes you sound like a potential bad mother! Not at all! It's not like you are saying "I think that ____ vaccine is necessary, but oh well. I can't be bothered". THAT would be sketchy :P I will say/ask...since you did say that you would vaccinate for a certain illness if you lived in an area where there was an outbreak of it...and considering that vaccines prevent outbreaks, aren't you sort of counting on other people's choices to keep your kid safe? Or hypothetical kids, lol. I really, really hope that didn't come off as judgemental, I swear I don't mean it that way, it's just something a wonder (especially about people who are VERY anti-vaccine, unlike you...it's easy to be anti-vaccine when other people's children aren't likely to give something to your kid)
And I know a TB vaccine in Ireland seems like a crazy idea (to me it does a bit), BUT.... TB is on the rise a LOT in the USA and Canada, where it was almost irradicated, so....maybe it's the fear of a return, due to immigration, that is the concern? You never know...is that one of the "mandatory" vaccines in Ireland?



Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker

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