I'm going to a wedding today

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 19, 2008 9:43 AM Go to message in response to: Nalamienea

Dear Nala,

The ladies both wore "nice" dresses, but not bridal gowns. They are well into their forties, after all. Both dresses were in shades of pink, but not identical.

One walked into the church with her father. The other walked in with her brother-in-law; her own father has advanced dementia.

The service was the basic Episcopal liturgy, with certain adaptations.

"Do you take this woman as your spouse..."

The couple's children stood up with their mothers.

The wedding part of the ceremony was concluded with Holy Communion, as is pretty standard in any Episcopal church service these days.

The entire thing was pretty similar to the kind of wedding I'd expect for a church-going middle-aged heterosexual couple who had lived together 16 years and had teenaged children. About 50 guests, then cake and light refreshments in the church social hall.

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CatStandish Posts : 2,766 Registered: 6/20/08
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 19, 2008 10:07 AM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Absolutely awesome!  I'm glad that not only did they get a legal recognition of their marriage, but also got to have a full on religious service.  Go Episcopals!

Misty

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myra Posts : 5,550 Registered: 3/28/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 1:32 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Sounds like a great wedding. To all Californians, I urge you to vote NO on Prop. 8, which seeks to overturn the state Supreme Court's ruling legalizing gay marriage.

myra at www.classysassyweddings.com

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deltagirl Posts : 516 Registered: 12/30/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 1:51 PM Go to message in response to: myra

I sure will Myra! 

SF's County Clerks is a busy place today!


 

 

www.brides.com/weddingwebsite/trinaandron2008

 

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CaribbeanBride08 Posts : 1,474 Registered: 6/13/07
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 2:34 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

AOTB, that's very awesome that you are so open minded and I'm glad you enjoyed the wedding.  I have several friends who have recently tied the knot and I'm praying that CA will allow them to remain married.  The commercials on TV that are against Prop 8 are so full of lies.  I've also started seeing more and more bumper stickers for Yes on 8 as well as a guy standing on the street corner holding a Yes on 8 sign.  It truly saddens me.  My husband enjoys being around my lesbian friends but really doesn't "get" the whole gay marriage thing and says he couldn't care less if it passes or fails.  Plus it does go against his Christian beliefs but he's able to put those beliefs aside (thank goodness).  The other night I gave this scenario to him:  Two men, Larry and Tom are both in their late 50's and have been together for 20 yrs...  Tom is the bread winner in the family and passes away unexpectedley.... shouldn't Larry be able to draw off Tom's pension or Tom's social security?   If Tom was married to a woman, she would be able to collect so why is it so wrong for same sex couples to get this benefit.    Needless to say, this scenario made him finally "get" it.

 

 


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deltagirl Posts : 516 Registered: 12/30/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:14 PM Go to message in response to: CaribbeanBride08

CarribeanBride - From what I understand, anyone who was married under the law will be allowed to remain legally married even if the law is over turned.

There was a time in this Country when African-Americans were not alloweed to marry. And Christians upheld that belief. They obviously feel differently now.

People need to separate how they feel about homosexuality when it comes to this Law. This is a Civil Right Law .


 

 

www.brides.com/weddingwebsite/trinaandron2008

 

Message was edited by: deltagirl

Message was edited by: deltagirl

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:15 PM Go to message in response to: CaribbeanBride08

Dear CB,

I don't think of it as being "open minded".

I think of it as respecting other people's rights to live, peacefully, as they wish. It's just basic civil rights.

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CaribbeanBride08 Posts : 1,474 Registered: 6/13/07
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:19 PM Go to message in response to: deltagirl

I completely agree with you about people needing to keep their personal beliefs separate from law. 

Here's the TV commercial I spoke about.  It's all lies and whoever put this clip together did a good job at pointing out all the lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY

as for whether or not the marriages performed before Nov 4th will still be recognized, I'll just have to do my research.  I was under the assumption that if the ruling was overturned, those marriages would once again mean nothing in the eyes of the law. 


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Nalamienea Posts : 2,924 Registered: 6/13/08
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:30 PM Go to message in response to: CaribbeanBride08

Aunt - that sounds like it was such a PRETTY wedding! I bet it was lots of fun :) Thanks for sharing!

http://www.chrisandsarah2008.net

 

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CaribbeanBride08 Posts : 1,474 Registered: 6/13/07
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:34 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Dear AOTB,

Thank you for pointing out my mistake of using the wrong terminology.  I was merely trying to pay you a compliment.  I should have known better.


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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 4:33 PM Go to message in response to: CaribbeanBride08

Dear CB,

Oh, dear, I did not mean that you made any mistake. I do apologize.

I just meant that I see no particular virtue in granting other people the same civil rights I enjoy. It's just common decency.

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08divabride Posts : 831 Registered: 11/17/07
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 4:43 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

AOTB, thanks for sharing.  I have a same sex wedding to go to next year in Conneticut and I can't wait to experience that!  Plus I have never been to Conneticut!  LOL


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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 8:16 PM Go to message in response to: CaribbeanBride08

Dear Tobi,

On further reflection: I think I know why I snapped at you. (Again, I apologize!)

My niece, white, married a black man. At the time of her engagement and wedding, a lot of people complimented me on being so broad-minded, etc.

I was really taken aback, as I don't see my love for my niece's husband and his family to be of any particular virture. It started to bug me, as though so many people thought I SHOULD be uncomfortable or unhappy. How could I be? Her in-laws are wonderful people and I thoroughly enjoy their company.

Now, we are entering the era of the same-sex marriage. It is new, different and of course, the wave of the future. There are plenty of people who vociferiously, under the guise of religious righteousness, voice their opposition to same-sex marriages. Now, in this day and age, it is, in fact, broad minded to attend such a wedding and wish the happy couple well.

Can we hope that in another generation, it will become as routine as mixed-race marriages? Unusual, yes more or less, but not abnormal? And not requiring any particular virtue of the guests to drag out the lavender chiffon, wrap up a nice present in pretty paper and wish the couple a long and happy life together?

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Lorilee Posts : 437 Registered: 12/18/07
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 9:39 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Completely agree with you, Aunt. I've had my fair share of trouble for attending a same-sex wedding, and even more for spending time with my stepbrother and his boyfriend. I had some many questions about how awkward it must have been, how strange, etc, that I just wanted to bite off the head of the next person to say it.

I must say, the Episcopal faith is looking more and more appealing to me as the days go on. Any faith who is as accepting of people as I am always interests me.

To expound on this, a past boyfriend of mine is gay; he came out to me soon after our one-year anniversary. While I dated him, I caught all kinds of grief from my church, and even my parents, because he was Cambodian. I caught even more when I attended his wedding this past year. I thought it was a lovely ceremony.

I do have a question, though. This isn't to sound rude, it's more to compare what I went through to yours. Did anyone 'boycotte' the wedding? I ask because we had to deal with all kinds of trouble from certain 'relegious parties' in the area, and I'm wondering if that's because of my area, or if it happens everywhere?

I ask because my stepbrother is close to proposing, and talking about planning a destination wedding to escape all the flak. He asked me, and I told him I didn't know if the area would make much of a difference. And the vows interest me as well. Are these strickly Episcopalian vows, or are they 'Christian' vows (not meaning anything against any faith. I simply don't know what words to use to describe the vows, since every different version of Christianity I've encountered seems to do these things differently).

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that not every church/relegion has issues with two loving, commited adults being married.


Formerly Lorikee

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: I'm going to a wedding today
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 11:20 PM Go to message in response to: Lorilee

Dear Lori,

Fair questions.

The only "boycott" that I heard of was that one of the ladies' sisters had to tell her husband that she was doing something else that day. The sister came with her two children, and I overheard one of the children, as well as their mother, mention "We told Dad we were at the shopping mall.".

The elderly mother of the two sisters (one bride and sister of the bride) impressed me as the very prim-and-proper type. I greeted her and told her I was happy to meet her. She responded, quite sharply, that no one was happier than she was to see this day come. In short, she was 100% supportive of her daughter and her daughter's decisions. Similarly, she was affectionate and loving to her daughter's new spouse and to her grandchildren.

Next issue: The Episcopal Church.

I can't really go into too much detail here in a message board about the incredibly complex church politics involved. In short, the issue of full inclusion of gay and lesbians in the life of the Episcopal Church has brought the church close to a schism. There are various dioceses and parishes who object to the ordination of women to the priesthood and order of bishops. The recent concecration of an openly gay man as bishop of New Hampshire has further stressed the Anglican Communion. A woman was elected Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the United States, which has further distressed many.

If you are interested in the Episcopal Church, you must be forewarned that not all parishes and not all dioceses are as liberal as mine is. You cannot just walk into a random Episcopal Church and expect full inclusion of women as priests as well as same-sex couples.

My suggestion for research is as follows. Figure out what diocese you live in. That's easy enough - just go to the main Episcopal Church website.

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/

Once you know what diocese you are in, investigate further. Are there women priests in that diocese? Read the diocesan website critically. See what they say. Are there statements about full inclusion? Is there an emphasis on traditional faith?

Finally: "And the vows interest me as well. Are these strickly Episcopalian vows, or are they 'Christian' vows (not meaning anything against any faith. I simply don't know what words to use to describe the vows, since every different version of Christianity "

Again, I'm forced to answer a complex question in a short space.

The Episcopal Church is the American branch of the Worldwide Anglican Communion. The "mother" church of the Anglican Communion is the Church of England. There are many other Anglican churches throughout the world, mostly in former British colonies and territories.

The CofE was founded as an effort to reform the Roman Catholic Church in England. This started in the reign of Henry VIII (aka Henry Tudor) and more or less settled into its permanent form during the reign of Elizabeth I. Essentially, the Anglican Church is "reformed Catholicism". We are not truly Protestants, nor are we truly Roman Catholics. Some think of us as "Anglican Catholics". (That is my own personal view.) 

We don't have a Pope. We have, instead, elected Bishops who are considered "first amoung equals". The Archbishop of Canterbury or the Presiding Bishop of the US serve out their elected terms, then retire so the next elected AofC or PB can serve.

We don't have a theology that you must ascribe to in order to join the church. You don't sign a document, in other words. The Anglican Communion is considered to have a wide umbrella of beliefs, but some believe with the issues of woman priests and full inclusion of homosexuals, that wide umbrella is stretching too far. In our church we like to say "You don't have to check your brain at the door". We like your brain. We like your inquisitive nature. We enjoy questions, dissension and vivid discussion.

We are most certainly Christian. We say the same Lord's Prayer and profess the same Nicene Creed as do other Christian denominations.

The liturgy of our marriage ceremony is (or should be) pretty familiar to you. It starts out "Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here..." We have a lot of options in the wedding ceremony, but we do not permit Do-It-Yourself vows.

This is a very long post, but you asked a lot of good questions. Thanks.

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