NWR Current Events Thread

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 12:53 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

I know. . .I think messy voting might be here to stay, especially with the increased use of electronic voting machines (easy to hack into, and impossible to trace).

So, Palin's e-mail got hacked.  While I agree that it is an invasion of privacy and totally illegal. . .I can't help feel, if it is, um, why is it legal when the government does it?


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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 12:59 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

So, it has come to my attention that Republicans are planning to use a strategy in Michigan of keeping people whose homes are being foreclosed on from voting.  I'm assuming that the rational is that if you don't have an address, you can't vote? 

It's despicable.

Remember, if anyone challenges your right to vote, insist on a provisional ballot.  Don't just walk away.   


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My new favorite website: www.poptimal.com

"I'd hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, or insanity, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson

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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 1:00 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

Her government email or her Yahoo email?  Just curious.

Well, A LOT of places are apparently getting rid of the Electronic voting machines.  Also, apparently there is a back up now if there is a problem.

And you figure FLorida two elections ago DIDN'T have the electronic machines and still managed to get totally bungled up - yes the hanging chad will forever be Florida's legacy.

My point being, NONE of the systems we have in place seem to work too well.  Which is rather mind boggling.


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PharmToxGirl Posts : 5,446 Registered: 8/30/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 1:10 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

So, it has come to my attention that Republicans are planning to use a strategy in Michigan of keeping people whose homes are being foreclosed on from voting.  I'm assuming that the rational is that if you don't have an address, you can't vote? 

This has since been dropped - I think because it hit the media ?

Here's the original article:  http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote

Here's the recant: http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4231/republicans-recant-plans-to-foreclose-voters-but-admit-other-strategies

 


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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 1:12 PM Go to message in response to: PharmToxGirl

Her Yahoo e-mail accounts (two of them, I think). 

Apparently, personal e-mail accounts like yahoo are easier to get into, because they allow you to reset your password if you forgot it.  So then you get to the question that theoretically only you would know.  But, if you're a public official, it's easy to find out the things one might use for a password, like kids names, pets, addresses, etc.  (Paris Hilton's cell phone got hacked because her password was "Tinkerbell" which is the well known name of her dog). 

Oh well.  I'm curious about how long it will take to find the hackers.  I read an article a few weeks ago about trolls and hackers, and it was fascinating and a bit scary.  


__________________________________________
My new favorite website: www.poptimal.com

"I'd hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, or insanity, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson

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MissyF Posts : 275 Registered: 9/23/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 2:44 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

Hi, folks!

I hope your day has been going well. I had to pull an all-nighter last night to finish my freelance, so my brain is all mushy. There are a few points brought up to which I'd like to respond:

One is the point about the economy being better under Democrats than under Republicans. This fact is completely undeniable and relatively consistent over the course of the last century. I think that there are two factors at play here: one is that the Democrats have always been better able to articulate how their policies will help the "little guy" than Republicans have. In response to the optimism that generally follows the election of a Democratic president, investors move to cash in on the spending that normally accompanies such a positive outlook. This is a huge and consistent failure of the Republican Party. Again, Reagan is the only 20th Century Republican president who had any ability to communicate with the average American, but even he was hindered both by his party's reputation and by a powerful Democratic Congress. The second factor, and possibly the more important, is the perversion of the meaning and usage of the words "conservative" and "liberal." The original meanings of these words as used in the political arena tended to refer only to fiscal policies rather than include social positions, probably because there used to be more consistency in social opinion across the US. Furthermore, liberalism used to support free markets, while conservatism took a more isolationist economic tack. Over time, the public use of these words reversed, but the politicians themselves have failed to catch up: Republicans have been the party of big government that can't stay within a budget to save their lives, and major free trade agreements like NAFTA have occurred under Democratic presidents like Clinton. The rhetoric and the actual policies often do not line up. For instance, if the current administration was REALLY conservative, they wouldn't be bailing out all these failing companies.

So, you ask, why then would I still support the Republican nominee if the party has shown no ability to live up to its rhetoric, and the Democrats have a more fiscally responsible record? Well, that's why, prior to both candidates' platforms solidifying within the last few months (because you have to admit both have been in flux for the last year), I was seriously considering not voting at all. But now that I am aware of the candidates' experience and positions, I feel that it's too big of a gamble to assume that Obama MIGHT scale back on spending, especially if he expects to be able to pay for universal health care. Furthermore, I think that BOTH McCain's and Palin's record of standing up to Republican power and precedent provide the best opportunity for reform of the government. Not a garantee, but a good shot, especially if some more idealistically conservative Republicans can take some seats in Congress, for balance of power at the very least.

http://www.arationaladvocate.com/areyouliberalorconservative.html

The second point I wanted to make was to refute the idea that the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. The IRS has released a report based on income tax data taken between 1999 and 2005 (the next ten-year report comes out in 2009) that demonstrates the exact opposite, and in no small margins: the bottom fifth of wage-earners had their income increase by 91%, while the top one percent of earners saw their income DECREASE by 26%. Including all income levels, the average American earner's income increased by 24%. This period INCLUDES the economic crisis after 9/11, and still the numbers appear this way. So that is one inaccuracy I'd like to hear Obama correct.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/11/income_confusion.html

I would like someone to please explain to me in layman's terms how raising corporate taxes creates more jobs. I have difficulty making that connection.

Thanks again for the excellent discussion, and talk to you all again soon!



Woman to my man. Slave to my budget.

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CatStandish Posts : 2,766 Registered: 6/20/08
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 2:44 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

It was the PRIVATE email she was using to conduct PUBLIC business.   Perhaps if she'd not taken a page out of the Republican Play Book and followed the rules, her emails would have been on a secure server.

Yahoo is NOT secure, and it is very hackable.  Surely she should have understood that.  And come on.... gov.sarah@yahoo.com   gov.palin@yahoo.com    why not something subtle like drill4oil@yahoo.com or bluebunny@yahoo.com  or alaskarocks@yahoo.com     Not something so obvious that it was the governor's email.... Geesh!  If you are going to cheat, at least be smart about it!!


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CatStandish Posts : 2,766 Registered: 6/20/08
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 2:46 PM Go to message in response to: MissyF

Personally, I'm in favor of raising the taxes for corporations who ship jobs overseas and giving tax breaks/incentives for companies who keep the jobs here.
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MissyF Posts : 275 Registered: 9/23/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM Go to message in response to: CatStandish

Makes sense, except that the reason jobs go overseas in the first place is because of the high cost of union labor, insurance, etc. in the US, which will, for many companies, pretty much make up for any savings they might gain through tax incentives.


Woman to my man. Slave to my budget.

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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,859 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:00 PM Go to message in response to: MissyF

It really doesn't matter what a the IRS says my wages have not gone up in the past two years while all of my expensives have more than tripled.  Can you explain to me why this is happening.  Truly in my world a Republican has not done me the least bit of good.  I can not forsee these people who can not even figure out that the economy is in trouble helping my bottom line at all.  If you feel that they have your best interest at heart then vote for them.  For those in my world it will only make things much worse. 

Kenny and Me Perfect Together,  10 years and counting.



 

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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,859 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:07 PM Go to message in response to: kennysoldwife

It really doesn't matter if I am bringing home more money.  I am spending more money for everything that I buy.  If it costs me more to do the same things I did last year how is a my making $1 more an hour going to help. 

So yes people are making more money but they are spending much more than they are making. 


Kenny and Me Perfect Together,  10 years and counting.



 

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myra Posts : 5,550 Registered: 3/28/06
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:08 PM Go to message in response to: MissyF

The IRS has released a report based on income tax data taken between 1999 and 2005 (the next ten-year report comes out in 2009) that demonstrates the exact opposite, and in no small margins: the bottom fifth of wage-earners had their income increase by 91%, while the top one percent of earners saw their income DECREASE by 26%. Including all income levels, the average American earner's income increased by 24%. This period INCLUDES the economic crisis after 9/11, and still the numbers appear this way. So that is one inaccuracy I'd like to hear Obama correct.

As I'm sure you know, raw numbers don't mean much. My income went up last year. but, my costs went up more. It should be fairly easy to understand that a dollar today does not buy what a dollar bought last year. Gasoline costs, heating, electrical, grocery, rent/mortgage, tuition, clothing--anyone, anyone? And, as these costs rise, businesses fail. These statistics do not include the number of jobs lostin the current economic downturn (including those at companies like Lehman Brothers, WaMu, etc.) Sure, if you have half the number of workers, maybe you can pay them a bit more! I just saw an article this morning in the LA Times. Many jewelers are going out of business because 1] the cost of gold is making the price of jewelry prohibitive and, b] jewelry is the last thing people spend on in a bad economy. Another article (same place) said that half of current housing sales are forclosures. So, if you see statistics from the government that are crowing "housing sales are recovering,"take a moment to analyze what's really going on.

myra at www.classysassyweddings.com

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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,859 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:18 PM Go to message in response to: myra

I am listening to sound bites from the Town Hall meeting held yesterday by the Republicans a question was asked of Gov. Palin about her strategies and policies for empowering women and she talked about Title 9 and Sen. McCain throws in that she was a point guard.  I just want to know what her being a point guard has to do with empowering women in this country. 

Another question posed to her was about her knowledge of foreign policy she talked all around the question but never answered it.  She said if you have a specific question ask me but that was her answer to a specific question.  How much sense does that make?


Kenny and Me Perfect Together,  10 years and counting.



 

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kennysoldwife Posts : 3,859 Registered: 4/28/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:40 PM Go to message in response to: kennysoldwife

Can anyone explain this to me?  I am so confused.  I think I am just plain stupid.

ABCNews' Brett Hovell and Imtiyaz Delawala report: At a joint McCain-Palin town hall meeting in Grand Rapids, Mich., this evening, Gov. Sarah Palin took questions directly from voters for the first time, but rarely directly answered the questions posed to her or ventured from lines she often delivers on the campaign trail.

Palin jumped right in from the first question directed to Republican running mate Sen. John McCain on how he would address the threat of radical Islam. After McCain gave a short response, Palin interrupted, asking, "John, John. Can I add something? I want to add something to that."

"Always," McCain replied, drawing cheers and applause from a crowd of 2,000 packed into a gym at Grand Rapids Community College.

"Okay. May I add something, because sometimes my running mate is a bit too humble," Palin added, returning to a regular point she makes on the campaign trail. "We need to remember who it was who pushed for and supported and risked much for the strategy that is working in Iraq, and that is the surge. He is the one who pushed for it."

One female voter asked for Palin's response to discussion about her perceived lack of foreign policy experience, asking her to "please respond to that criticism and give us specific skills that you think you have to bring to the White House to rebut that or mitigate that concern."

But Palin did not list specific skills, instead giving a broad response while saying she would be happy to play "stump the candidate" on foreign policy issues.

"I think because I am a Washington outsider that opponents are going to be looking for a whole lot of things that they can criticize and they can kind of beat the candidate here who chose me as his partner to kinda tear down the ticket," Palin responded. "But as for foreign policy you know I think I am prepared and I know that on Jan. 20 if we are so blessed as to be sworn into office as your president and vice-president, certainly we'll be ready. I'll be ready. I have that confidence. I have that readiness and if you want specifics with specific policy or countries go ahead. You can ask you can play stump the candidate if you want to. But we are ready to serve."

When asked by a former Hillary Clinton supporter to give details and examples of her "strategies and plan for economic empowerment for women," Palin provided few specifics.

"Now, I was a product of Title IX where legislation allowed that equal opportunity. Now if we have to still keep going down that road to create more legislation, to get with it in the 21st century, to make sure that women do have equality especially in the work place, then we're there because we understand that in this age we have all got to be working together," Palin said. "But yup, equality for women, for all, that's going to be part of the agenda and I thank you for that question."

McCain seemed happy to have Palin along for their first joint town hall, asking her to jump in on the conversation, notably on energy issues, which McCain's campaign has been promoting as Palin's strong suit. When asked by one voter how and where oil from off-shore drilling could be secured, Palin cited her experience on energy issues in Alaska, saying she would work to make the resources that "belong to the people" available.

"It's a matter of Congress allowing these lands to be tapped—the offshore drilling—the allowance given there also for safe, reliable and ethical drilling of these resources," Palin said. "Yes, the oil companies have the leases, the right to develop; they also have a duty to develop when it's economic, when people are hurting, they need to tap those resources and get those sources flowing. That's part of the reform that we're going to usher into D.C. and we did that up in Alaska."

But when asked how she would help keep any new domestic oil produced in the United States, Palin gave a less-than-well-articulated non-answer.

"Oil and coal? Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first," Palin said. "So I believe that what Congress is going to do also is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans that get stuck to holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first."

Despite the feeling of something new and unique for their first meeting, the event still had many of the hallmarks of a typical McCain town hall – and he's hand hundreds of them. He was asked about healthcare and social security, and thanked for his service in Vietnam. He asked veterans in the audience to stand and they got a round of applause.

As if to pre-empt any question that might play up some of the differences between his positions and those of his running mate, McCain admitted at the beginning of the meeting that he and Palin didn't always agree.

"And by the way, you may figure out from time to time, Sarah and I don't agree on every issue," he said. "What do you expect of two mavericks?"

Indeed, later in the evening a questioner asked Palin if she'd been able to convince McCain to support drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in her home state of Alaska, a measure she supports and he opposes.

"I'm still working on it," she said to applause.

"Now, I was a product of Title IX where legislation allowed that equal opportunity. Now if we have to still keep going down that road to create more legislation, to get with it in the 21st century, to make sure that women do have equality especially in the work place, then we're there because we understand that in this age we have all got to be working together," Palin said. "But yup, equality for women, for all, that's going to be part of the agenda and I thank you for that question."

McCain seemed happy to have Palin along for their first joint town hall, asking her to jump in on the conversation, notably on energy issues, which McCain's campaign has been promoting as Palin's strong suit.

When asked by one voter how and where oil from off-shore drilling could be secured, Palin cited her experience on energy issues in Alaska, saying she would work to make the resources that "belong to the people" available.

"It's a matter of Congress allowing these lands to be tappedthe offshore drillingthe allowance given there also for safe, reliable and ethical drilling of these resources," Palin said. "Yes, the oil companies have the leases, the right to develop; they also have a duty to develop when it's economic, when people are hurtin', they need to tap those resources and get those sources flowin'. That's part of the reform that we're going to usher into D.C. and we did that up in Alaska."

But when asked how she would help keep any new domestic oil produced in the United States, Palin gave a less-than-well-articulated non-answer.

"Oil and coal? Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first," Palin said. "So I believe that what Congress is going to do also is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans that get stuck to holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first."

Despite the feeling of something new and unique for their first meeting, the event still had many of the hallmarks of a typical McCain town hall and he's hand hundreds of them. He was asked about healthcare and social security, and thanked for his service in Vietnam. He asked veterans in the audience to stand and they got a round of applause.

As if to pre-empt any question that might play up some of the differences between his positions and those of his running mate, McCain admitted at the beginning of the meeting that he and Palin didn't always agree.

"And by the way, you may figure out from time to time, Sarah and I don't agree on every issue," he said. "What do you expect of two mavericks?"

Indeed, later in the evening a questioner asked Palin if she'd been able to convince McCain to support drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in her home state of Alaska, a measure she supports and he opposes.

"I'm still working on it," she said to applause.

 

 


Kenny and Me Perfect Together,  10 years and counting.



 

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR Current Events Thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 3:45 PM Go to message in response to: MissyF

I'd like to see the IRS study adjusted for inflation, frankly. 

Moreover, the IRS study is in contrast to the Census study, so clearly it's just about which one you want to believe. 

What the link you posted did say is this:

Comparing the top income bracket with the bottom income bracket over a period of years the Census study tells you nothing about what is happening to the actual flesh-and-blood human beings who are moving between brackets during those years.

The piece goes on. . .

That is also why the share of income going to the bottom 20 percent bracket can be going down, as the Census Bureau data show, while the income going to the people who began the decade in that bracket is going up by large amounts.

This is the problem with percentages.  The amount of money and individual may be receiving may actually be going up, but the total share of money going to people in their income bracket may still be going down (as the Census data reports).

Moreover, in regards to the rich, if the top one percent of people's income is actually going down (and 1% is a pretty small slice), that doesn't mean that the total share of money of the top twenty percent isn't going up.  That one percent is just seeing the smallest return -- but the other 19% can still be getting pretty filfthy rich.

Moreover, we're talking about the income reported to the IRS by the top 1% of the country.  I mean, c'mon.  The top 1% certainly is going to be the most talented when it comes to filing taxes with the IRS.  There are ways to hide your income when it comes to filing taxes -- including overseas.  So I don't really take the report as definate evidence to the contrary of what Obama's been saying.  And given that Census data supports his speech, there's no need to correct any "inacurracy."


__________________________________________
My new favorite website: www.poptimal.com

"I'd hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, or insanity, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson

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