NWR: Your feelings on smoking

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SocalGal Posts : 456 Registered: 6/3/06
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 29, 2008 8:27 PM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

You have a problem with that, then I'm sorry...wirte to the people in a position to make a change, and then don't stay home on election day (not just saying you personally, but everyone). 

 - emphasis added, since you seemed to miss it last time.

 


True love never has a happy ending; true love never ends.

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SocalGal Posts : 456 Registered: 6/3/06
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 29, 2008 8:27 PM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

You have a problem with that, then I'm sorry...wirte to the people in a position to make a change, and then don't stay home on election day (not just saying you personally, but everyone). 

 - emphasis added, since you seemed to miss it last time.

 


True love never has a happy ending; true love never ends.

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MuffinB Posts : 778 Registered: 7/13/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 29, 2008 9:54 PM Go to message in response to: SocalGal

Cyndi and MsD- would you be in favor of legalizing methamphetamine, heroin and cocaine? Since you're arguing that smoking bans take away from letting "adults be adults", why not just legalize all harmful substances and allow each individual to decide on his/her own what cancer-causing toxin they ingest?

Added on 7/30:

I realize now that this question is kinda dumb, so please disregard it. I won't delete it because I know how we all hate post deleters.

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Brookitacita Posts : 59 Registered: 12/4/06
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 5:27 AM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

Smoking is unhealthy. Period. It is unhealthy for the smoker, and unhealthy for the people around that smoker. In this day and age, we know this as a fact. You can argue the degree all you want, but the fact remains that to some extent it is unhealthy. Should it be made illegal? No way. It's way too late for that. People that want to smoke will smoke, and there is no way to control that. We all know that people are going to continue to do it and it would fail just like prohibition did. And that's fine, we won't make it illegal. What isn't fine is those people forcing others to inhale their smoke.

Drinking is also unhealthy -- mostly. As pp mentioned, there have been some positive effects associated with moderate consumption of red wine. However, the big difference here is that drinking is not innately unhealthy to those around you. For your average drinker, they are NOT affecting you. It is not the alcohol itself that affects other people, it's the actions of the person consuming it. This is not so with smoking. If you smoke around someone else, their lungs are affected. Period. The manner in which you smoke is not the issue. The issue is merely the fact that you are smoking.

The laws in question are to control smoking in relation to other people, not to "take away people's rights" to smoking. There are many comparable laws in effect for alcohol consumption. I am so glad someone finally mentioned prohibition... thank you for reminding everyone that banning alcohol won't work -- been there, failed that. Same thing for banning smoking. But what is working is enforcing laws to regulate alcohol consumption, and what is also working is enforcing similar laws to regulate smoking. Most states already have these laws.  You can view the details here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

So I don't think that comparing freedom to smoke anywhere is the same as freedom to drink. We don't have the right to drink anywhere we please. It's illegal to drink in schools, cars, many offices, strip clubs, and many other places. Drinking is heavily regulated as it is, and all the people you mentioned are violating laws we have -- the enforcement is a whole different issue. All the negatives you mentioned in association to drinking and affecting other people are things that are already controlled -- just not well enough. It is difficult to babysit 300 million idiots. And we can't. The government is constantly struggling to find that line on where protecting people from each other's stupidity is doable. Most of the U.S. has decided that smoking indoors in public should be prohibited and is doable. As you can tell by reading these boards, most of the people living in these states are in favor of these laws. And as pp have mentioned, you can never please everyone. I live in California and we have strict smoking regulations and I love it. I don't hear smokers complaining about having to go outside, either. Most of the ones that are used to it don't mind it -- and as you can see here even prefer it. One of the main issues with states that haven't enacted these laws yet is really just resistance to change.  

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Heidibride30 Posts : 1,201 Registered: 4/16/08
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 8:32 AM Go to message in response to: Brookitacita

Brookitacita, thank you for summing that up so well!  My feelings are exactly the same as yours, but you stated it far better than I have. 

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MrsMcCain Posts : 580 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 9:59 AM Go to message in response to: Brookitacita

I second that Brook summed up that up very well!

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Knoxvegas Posts : 951 Registered: 9/12/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 10:34 AM Go to message in response to: MrsMcCain

Ok- here is one side of it. I really don't have an opinion on the topic, but I do have to defend some of the bars. In my area, restaurants and bar/clubs that allowed those under 21 became legally smoke free.  Dozens of people who are old enough to both purchase tobacco and serve alcohol were fired because they were no longer legally able to be in their place of employment (ie 18-20 years old). It sucks because this is a college town and lots of people work to get through school. One restaurant decided to go all bar and lose the "family" restaurant persona because half their patrons left right after the ban. In a tobacco rich area like this (officially 25% of people smoke, but it's probably more), the ban has actually hurt small businesses. 

Plus, the legislature passed another tax increase at the same time as the ban (from 41 cents to 62 cents per pack), trying to force people to quit, complete with TV promotions at least once per show on local networks.  


"Love is not a matter of counting the years -- it's making the years count."

-Wolfman Jack Smith

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 10:51 AM Go to message in response to: Brookitacita

Smoking is unhealthy for others around you.

And so is driving.  Driving is unhealthy for the environment -- it unleashes pollution in the air and is bad for us in the long run.

So why don't we restrict driving? 

Because it is politically unpopular.

The issue isn't the fact that people regulate smoking, the wheres, the whens, the whys.  The fact is that we regulate those things that are politically feasible for us to do so, not the things that are the most unhealthy.

I don't have a problem with the fact that we regulate smoking.  I have a problem with the fact that we choose what to regulate based on political popularity and not what is actually bad for us.


__________________________________________
"I'm asking you to believe.  Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington. . .I'm asking you to believe in yours." - Barack Obama

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MsDenuninani Posts : 3,962 Registered: 3/16/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 10:55 AM Go to message in response to: MrsMcCain

Damn straight the mindset is selfish.  But so is yours.

It's all about self-interest -- your right to "clean air"; my right to smoke.  We're all self-interested.  If the popular count sides with you, you win.  If it doesn't, I do. 

But it's not about truth, or rights.  It's about popularity.


__________________________________________
"I'm asking you to believe.  Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington. . .I'm asking you to believe in yours." - Barack Obama

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MuffinB Posts : 778 Registered: 7/13/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 11:14 AM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

Not only is it politically unpopular to restrict driving, but also the benefits of driving outweigh the potential harm. Everyone can benefit from cars as a mode of transportation. I can't think of anything good that comes from smoking.

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MrsMcCain Posts : 580 Registered: 10/24/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 4:03 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

No one says you don't have a right to smoke, but keep it away from others who don't appreciate it and want to keep their lungs healthy! How is that request selfish?

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cyndi33 Posts : 2,585 Registered: 1/3/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 7:09 PM Go to message in response to: SocalGal

DIdn't miss the emphasis, thanks for pointing it out though.  It was not just me personally, but everyone.  By definition, that includes me personally, and THAT was what I responded to.

However, I've said my piece, agree wholeheartedly with Ms. D, and believe it's pointless to argue logic in an illogical argument...my opinion stands.

 


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Heidibride30 Posts : 1,201 Registered: 4/16/08
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 9:08 PM Go to message in response to: MsDenuninani

And so is driving. Driving is unhealthy for the environment -- it unleashes pollution in the air and is bad for us in the long run. So why don't we restrict driving?

Well, you're not allowed to drive cars in public buildings either, so it's restricted in the same way as smoking!

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cyndi33 Posts : 2,585 Registered: 1/3/07
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 11:25 PM Go to message in response to: MuffinB

As to legalizing meth, coke, heroin?  Well....what I would NOT do is continue locking people up for the rest of their lives, or a good percentage of them, for violating the drug laws.  And waht I would also do away with is the "war on drugs" and the rest of the "war on...." which our government decides we're in when they are politically popular.  They simply don't work, but they DO cost taxpayers and people.  I wholeheartedly disagree with the lock them up and forget about them mentality...it's WHY I do what I do for a living.  

Yes, I guess I would allow each ADULT to determine what cancer-causing (and sorry, you're gonna need to prove that those cancer causing, if they are, toxins are somehow worse (without the emotional argument) than government sanctioned and promoted cancer causing toxins) toxins they wish to ingest.

Most harmful substances ARE legal, many are government sanctioned.  Peiople only get all up in arms about unpopular substances....but it is NOT directly proportional to the harm caused.

To me, it remains lacking in logic and basically futile and prone to a dangerous slippery slope based on the current bandwagon.  Period.


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kelleyiskelley Posts : 11,590 Registered: 7/2/06
Re: NWR: Your feelings on smoking
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 11:44 PM Go to message in response to: cyndi33

Im not even going to get into my personal opinion on the smoking AND drinking issues in here; because I will just get really angry and heated up and get nothing accomplished.

HOWEVER- my sole reason for coming in here is to tell Cyndi how much fun Im having reading all of her posts that end with "And thats it -Im done talking about this" or "Im not going to argue this point anymore - Im done" or "This is my last last post regarding this topic" or "oh and one more point and then I promise Im done" - only for her to come back and make just one more point or retort to something ELSE that angered her LOL. Oh man - its suchhhh great entertainment!!! Cyndi - youve been entertaining me for a good week now, just so you know. Ive been playing a little game with myself called "How many times will Cyndi reply and in that reply state that she is DONE with this topic?" HAHAHAHA!!!!! Sorry. Dont mean to laugh at you. But youre funny:) And this is all very entertaining indeed, so please dont stop lol.


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