NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing

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Charlotte09 Posts : 1,021 Registered: 2/22/08
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 6:48 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsperry

They cannot think for themselves, that is why they avoid answering questions. THey will only say what they have been told to say. It is the fault of these leaders who let "their people" become they way they are, but you just cannot give kids back to these women out of pity because they do not know any better. The kids will be much better off with parents that do know better and understand right from wrong and who have not been brainwashed. 

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BenjaminsWife Posts : 1,069 Registered: 1/11/07
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 6:49 PM Go to message in response to: futuremrsperry

When I first heard about this..the first thing that came to my mind was the TV series on HBO...Big Love which I found absolutely fascinating. I recommend watching it. The entire season 1 and season 2 are both on dvds

Now this is a tricky topic. These girls are so young and have all lead a very sheltered life. Now they're being placed in foster care and taken away from everything they've ever known. I'm sure for some of them, the change will be positive but for others, it will be negative.

It's going to be interesting to see how all this unfolds.


Formerly San Ramon Bride

The Big Day: 9/20/08

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 8:41 PM Go to message in response to: BenjaminsWife

Ladies,

What I have yet to see are mothers saying something like "I am now 26, here's my birth certificate, and my oldest child is 6, and here's her birth certificate. Do the math."

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EveT2007 Posts : 1,949 Registered: 8/31/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 8:57 PM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

What I don't understand is why it took the law enforcement people more than 100 years to intervene in this sect.  And why the only offense they're accused of now is physical and sexual abuse.  Isn't polygamy itself illegal?  Isn't that why the Mormon church abandoned polygamy back in the 19th century?

I remember visiting friends in Utah in the 1970s who were mainstream Mormons, and they knew all about "The Pligs" (their slang word for the polygamists).  The word was that The Pligs ran certain towns or districts near St. George (in southern Utah), kept to themselves, and nobody dared mess with them.  It was a sort of standoff, common knowledge that what The Pligs were doing was illegal, but for some bizarre reason it was officially and quietly tolerated.


"When Women Vote, We All Win!"

EveT

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EveT2007 Posts : 1,949 Registered: 8/31/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 8:58 PM Go to message in response to: EveT2007

Oh, and another thing I don't understand: How do they get their hair to pouf up over the forehead like that?

"When Women Vote, We All Win!"

EveT

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krista210 Posts : 450 Registered: 7/14/07
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 9:09 PM Go to message in response to: EveT2007

This is definitely an awesome topic. I just read an article in my morning paper about this today becuause there is a polygamus community fairly near where I live (Bountiful - near Creston in British Columbia that has near 1,000 followers). The article wondered why nobody will do anything even though it is illegal until a poor raped girl makes an annonymous phone call. It's definitely very tragic and sad that so many women and children (and of course I exclude men in this because I dont see any of them getting raped and beaten) have to be devestated when we KNOW about it and do nothing. I just find it pathetic that nobody in my surrounding communities ever even THINKS about Bountiful until something happens elsewhere in the world
DaisypathWedding Ticker

Message was edited by: krista210

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lostinthemission Posts : 102 Registered: 3/19/08
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 9:45 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

I didn't read the rest of these posts. I think it's totally okay for them to do this for these reasons:

1. Would you leave a child with her mother and father who put her in that situation to begin with?

2. Only the ones who were being abused were taken away. They were being physically and sexually abused. One was required to marry her uncle. Incest is against the law...

I do believe they should have offered the option to flee to everyone though. They did return some children. They interviewed the children, so they left the kids who were in healthier homes. The people aren't taking children away without proof and testimonies. It is very very very hard to get children taken away without an extreme amount of just cause and the children pretty much saying they want to leave with reasons. I know this because I have called child protective services on plenty of people who treat their children liek animals and many times. They still have them. Also, my FH should have never been left with his Mother and Step-Dad or his Father either. He said he has seen CPS 100's of times. They came almost everyweeksome years.


I am going to be sweet, Mrs. Sweet that is!


Message was edited by: lostinthemission

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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 16, 2008 11:28 PM Go to message in response to: EveT2007

Dear Eve,

"Isn't polygamy itself illegal? "

Of course.

The plural marriages are not state issued marriage certificate marriages. They are "celestial" marriages done outside the normal legal system. Oh, and if one of these men is thrown out of the system, the man's wives and children are reassignd to another man, without any need for state-sanctioned legal divorce.

Thus, all these "single moms" can get welfare benefits.

Seriously - read the Krakauer book.

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EveT2007 Posts : 1,949 Registered: 8/31/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 12:17 AM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Dear AOTB --  Wow.  I guess I should read the Krakauer book.  My tax dollars are going to support these sickos?

"When Women Vote, We All Win!"

EveT

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Charlotte09 Posts : 1,021 Registered: 2/22/08
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 12:48 AM Go to message in response to: BenjaminsWife

BenjaminsBride, Big Love is such a great show, but I heard that because of this issue and the issues that have been popping up with these FLDS groups that they wont be bringing back the show for season 3! I guess they are afraid that it glamorizes that lifestyle and of corse HBO does not want to be apart of that. But it makes me sad because it is a great show and I think it actually does show how poor of a decision it is to have plural marriages, and how crazy that whole lifestyle can be. 


And about their hair, I was in a play once where we had to wear our hair like that because it fit the time period and we had to use these cardboard popup or rolled up wash cloths and put them under our hair to keep it up. I am not sure if that was just a strategy to make us look authentic or if that is how they really do it. 

Message was edited by: Charlotte09

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daybug Posts : 159 Registered: 10/7/07
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 2:54 AM Go to message in response to: Charlotte09

Amen, Charlotte!!! I totally agree that these mothers are just as unfit as the old men who rape them. Letting your 14 year old daughter be married off to a 50 year old man is totally and utterly disgusting and any mother who can sit there and think it is ok is, in my book, as unfit as you can be. And I've also seen interviews from these mothers and I think that they are totally using the fact that their children were "torn away" from them to gain sympathy for themselves and it's horrifying to me!  Their children were rightfully taken out of an unhealthy and dangerous environment and they will hopefully be given the chance to live the life of a normal child. 

Message was edited by: daybug

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uno Posts : 619 Registered: 1/4/08
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 10:37 AM Go to message in response to: daybug

I saw a 30 second clip from the 'mothers' interview from the Today show when they appeared yesterday.  I think the question that was asked was something about how can you let your young daughters get 'married' to these old men?  And the mom said some rant about getting their children back (from the state) that had nothing to do with the original question.  I wish I had gotten to watch the rest of the interview yesterday, it probably was very interesting (and probably on the todayshow website).  Today though, they were going to discuss the women's hair and clothing requirements so maybe they were going to talk about how the women make their hair look like that.  Too bad I had to go to work.

And to the polygomy question - I agree with AOTB's answer.  These are (and I quote from them) "spiritual marriages" they don't file paperwork with the state b/c obviously a 13 year old isn't allowed to get married nor can men legally marry multiple women.  And when they leave or get kicked out of the 'church' their 'wives' and children are reassigned to other men willing to follow the rules.  

Overall, it's a sad situation that has gone out of control.  The state couldn't have done anything up until now... don't you people watch CSI & Law and Order? :) You can't file rape charges if you don't have a compliant and witness.  These kids aren't in public schools so no one in the outside world knows for sure that 13 year old are pregnant and 'married'.  Hopefully things change for the better and the state keeps a close eye on this compound and the kids that are returned to normal society.


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auntofthebride Posts : 9,354 Registered: 4/2/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 10:50 AM Go to message in response to: EveT2007

Dear Eve,

"Wow.  I guess I should read the Krakauer book.  My tax dollars are going to support these sickos?"

Yep. Yours and mine both.

They call it "bleeding the beast".

There was a high profile case of one man (& multiple wives) who was prosecuted and jailed. His name was Tom Green. A bit of searching with Google should turn something up.

If memory serves, he was convicted on child support charges.

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NJ4Life Posts : 3,358 Registered: 8/10/07
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 11:24 AM Go to message in response to: auntofthebride

Yup AOTB I was watching GMA again today and they talked more about how the "single moms" are on welfare and basically we're all paying for it in some way shape or form. It really is sick, and I do hope those children get out of it and move to some more loving homes.

And Eve, I said the SAME thing about the hair the other day. They ALL  had it in the same poof and I was like how the heck do they do it? And it looks all perfect! (not in style but perfect!)  I cant even pin MY OWN bangs back nicely!


Formerly Ama102707

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EveT2007 Posts : 1,949 Registered: 8/31/06
Re: NWR-This Whole Polygamist Thing
Posted: Apr 17, 2008 12:23 PM Go to message in response to: NJ4Life

Yeah, I would never make it in that sect, my hair won't go in a nice braid like that, let alone the pouf.

Now that I've looked up the links AOTB recommended, I'm curious about another thing: what do the men do for a living?  Apparently the women are busy raising kids, cooking, washing, and tilling the vegetable garden, but somebody has to have a job bringing in money, no?


"When Women Vote, We All Win!"

EveT

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