Hope this isn't controversial...

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futuremrsperry Posts : 1,904 Registered: 4/23/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 5:39 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

To me it IS possible to support the troops without supporting the war.  So I agree with you.  I don't think the army can pick where they go, but I do know the Coast Guard can.  My cousin and her husband are both helicopter mechanics, and her husband is a rescue diver (I think) with the US Coast Guard.  They were based in Atlantic City in the 90's while my uncle (her father) was sick so they would be close by.  When they came up for reassignment after his death they picked Alaska.  This past round they picked some place in Michigan to be near his family.  I think they have one more before they retire.  My cousin said they may pick Hawaii, but that's usually the first to go... haha. 

All the people I know who joined the military did so because the military paid for college.  They did not do it to fight in a war.  But that was before Iraq.  

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RanAway2Maine Posts : 2,359 Registered: 1/27/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 6:07 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Hi BirdLover, My FB just read your question and when I voiced an answer she asked me to post it so here goes.

First of all I'm no supporter of the Fed's imperialistic policies and find them an embarrassment.

The military recruits from the schools.  They entice kids just graduating High School with employment, "free" medical, 30 days paid vacation a year, being taught a career, and a chance to save for college.  They pray on kids that are just facing the world and don't have anything planned for the future by glamorizing military life.

 By the way, I served in the Air Force from '82 - '85.  For 18 months I was stationed on Crete, Greece where I met many wonderful people from all over Europe.  When I joined it was during peacetime and difficult to get in as it was a good deal.  The way it's looking now I wouldn't be surprised if our courts returned to offering military service in lieu of jail like they did during the Vietnam War.


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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 7:17 PM Go to message in response to: RanAway2Maine

I am back to clarify...and also to say thank you to everyone for keeping this thread respectful even when we disagree!  It's great!

I DO think it's possible to support the troops and not the war...and I do, overall.  But when I've said that to some people, they basically tell me that I'm full of crap, and if I don't support the war, I automatically don't support the troops.  I am glad that you ladies disagree.

Where my thoughts of confusion come from, is what this previous poster said "But what if you don't think they are, in fact, serving our country?  Since I don't believe the Iraq war is serving the United States at all, then I can't say that the troops are, in fact, serving our country. "

So...I believe that the troops DO, or at least at one point, DID feel that they were serving our country, and I can support them for that.  But since I feel that the war was started over essentially nothing, and since SO many innocent people have been killed in it, I don't see the war as benefiting America, Iraq, or any country at all.  So to me, it's conflicting. 

Also, my husband's attitude towards war kinda makes me cringe.  Whenever he talked about wanting to join, I asked him why.  He said, "It's honorable".  To me, that was a crappy reason.  If had a better reason ("to fight for my country" or "because I believe it's the right thing to do" ) I might have listened to him.  But to blindly inlist for something just because you want people to respect you?  It's awful, to me, that anyone would want to join something as seriuos as a war for such a seemingly shallow reason.

In addition, I group soldiers into the category of "innocent people", because they are people who do not deserve to die.  And it's unfair, in my mind, to say that our soldiers are any more important that the soldiers from any other country, including Iraq (because I doubt all of their soldiers are terrorists...some are just regular people "doing the right thing" by "fighting for their country')

So, both sides kill each other to basically achieve the same thing...to be really honest...it makes no sense.

That's what bugs me about war.

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TanisJ Posts : 2,669 Registered: 4/25/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 7:21 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

If the people who decided to go to war, were the same people who actually fought in the war, there would be a lot less war.

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FALLbrideINLOVE Posts : 1,056 Registered: 3/30/07
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 7:25 PM Go to message in response to: TanisJ

i totally agree with this statement Tanis!

 

and since it was mentioned i wholeheartedly support our social workers/ counselors because DH is one and it is a profession that really saves lives!



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newsjunkie Posts : 3,417 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 11:01 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Forgive me for not having read all the other statements but IMO, yes, you can support the troops  without supporting the war- because that is TOTALLY my position.  My brother was in the Army before 9/11.  He joined because he had always wanted to.  Eventually he was sent to Iraq but he is- thank goodness- now home and out of the military for good.  I think that people sign up because they are told the military has all these benefits- and they do, I'm not saying they don't- and probably many of them trust that their Commander-in-Chief won't be the biggest idiot EVER and send them into a war that WE started.  However, they are just doing their jobs. They MUST do their jobs or they can go to jail.  This is why it is absolutely possible to support the troops and not the war (or the C-I-C).

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 11:38 PM Go to message in response to: newsjunkie

"....and send them into a war that WE started"

I think a lot of people forget that part, Newsie

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sweetie01494 Posts : 73 Registered: 2/17/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 12:23 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

First of all...I think it was and is foolish for OP to start this off at "Hope this isn't controversial". Canadian or American, you are close enough to hopefully know that this is a hot topic and will certainly be a heated topic whenever addressed.

I find it amusing that no poster has yet to stand up and say, Hey my FH is over there...this is my stance. WELL, let me be the first. MY FH is over there. He was over there in 2003/2004 for4 a long deployment and has spent most of this year there as well.  I feel like I have a more realistic view on this war due to that than the average citizen. Yet I still realize I will never truly have an understanding. that is the key...the average citizen will never really know or understand what happens in WAR. You can rant all day long about what we should be doing or about us being in war for the wrong reasons...but you don't really know.  I feel like it must be nice to walk in those shoes...judging and laying your head down safe at night while those men and women, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters...fight and DIE for your freedoms.

Needless to say this is something that touches a nerve with me. The support the troops is certainly a result of the reaction of the Vietnam war and that generation in reality standing up and saying "never again". Long and short it doesn't really matter if you support the war or not, lets be honest...we don't have the information to truly judge and say what our nation "should" be doing (ie. pulling out, staying for x amount of time). We are like children, spoon fed just what is necessary or there would be mass chaos. Ultimately we will not be pulled out of this war quickly and will be in country for years after the "war" is officially over. Hello! We are still in Vietnam...Korea...need I continue?

  Also I feel the need to state that no one can make a blanket statement about what "many" or "most" people in the military feel about this war. Give me a break. Lets put a large number out there and say you know 20 people in the military...ok in perspective...650,000 plus troops have been deployed since this war began, so you don't know diddly squat. Please do not proclaim to know something factual as such. Additionally, there is not a choice...when you are told that you are deploying-you deploy. IT is your job, your commitment and again, not a choice. People know that when they signed up for military service and these days, people sign up anticipating serving on deployment. Sad, but true. And the poster who stated that her husband got a draft card? Laughable...nothing more on that one!

I think that it is necessary for every American to support the troops; they are fighting for your freedoms. Also they don't become automatic heroes...the actions and character and manners by which they conduct themselves are what define a person as a HERO...TRUE AMERICAN HEROS  that is. And God bless the ones that become such by dying for our freedoms to debate such things.

My heart lives for the arrivals terminal!

 


DaisypathWedding Ticker

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 12:45 AM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

"Sweetie",

I'll admit, I don't know a lot about the war, so hopefully you can help clarify one thing.  I get confused when people say that the war in Iraq involved fighting for Americans freedom...I was unaware that Iraq was posing a threat to America's freedom.  Perhaps you can fill me in?

I meant to title this post "Hope this isn't TOO controversial".  Sorry for the mistake.  No one here has insulted the troops (and if you think I did, I apologize, I don't always convey my message clear).

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77ChevyGirl Posts : 272 Registered: 1/6/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:15 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I once heard a comedian say something to the effect of that war should be a fight to the death between world leaders.  Who ever lives, wins.  End of story.  That would be the "fair" way to do it - the people who have the grudge/issue are the ones who fight.

Sadly, that's not reality.  War just flat out sucks.  If it didn't, then good old General Sherman wouldn't have said, "War is hell" at a time when war was considered VERY glorious.  It's horrific, there are no two ways about it.  But the people that are willing to sacrifice their lives so for others do deserve honor.  Now, we have all heard horror stories of military rape & so on.  Not every soldier is a hero.  BUT, they do deserve credit for making a sacrifice that most people just do not want to make.

I think your quote, "So, both sides kill each other to basically achieve the same thing...to be really honest...it makes no sense.

That's what bugs me about war." is RIGHT on the money.  Regardless of people's political views/beliefs, thoughts on the reasons for the war & so on, that is the exact reason how & why people can hate war, but support the troops.  The troops are a band of people who are willing to put their lives on the line for people they'll probably never meet, they deserve everyone's support.  The war that kills these poor people does not.


~ Lauren - The Future Mrs. Harvey

 

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sweetie01494 Posts : 73 Registered: 2/17/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:16 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

First off, I hope you didn't take my whole post as directed to you...I didn't imply that anyone had insulted the troops. I am glad to see that most people on the board understand the importance of supporting the troops. Just something I am passionate about as my FH is over there so I deal with these subjects on a VERY personal level.

  Every soldier fighting in every conflict that American is (and has been) involved in ultimately is fighting for their freedoms and yes DYING for them. I'm sorry, you aren't sure about threats to our freedoms? I really am not going to go on a soap box here...but I find terrorists and those who have a hate for Americans BRED into them and a want to KILL us a threat to my safety and freedom. I understand that it may be different for those from other countries. I also understand that the average citizen either doesn't hear or doesn't truly believe or know about the eight year old shooting and trying to kill FH. I do! It is bred. No, it was not just compartmentalized to Afghanistan. So again, they are fighting for the freedoms of American citizens and luxuries that we so often take advantage of and forget. You can be sure that a soldier or a soldier's spouse who has just gotten home from deployment/is on deployment really evaluates and takes in/cherishes every moment for what it is worth.

  Our freedoms are a direct result of our government. Freedom of speech included (which means those who doubt and disagree with wars and foreign policy and such can voice, assholes can protest American soliders funerals that were KIA...those same soldiers whom are fighting to afford them such rights, hell we can debate homosexual marriage). Soldiers fight to continue our freedom and safety.

All I know is that I am thankful to live in this country and proud of the men and women who choose to actively serve by way of military and those who stand by them as well.

I live for that arrival terminal!Laughing


DaisypathWedding Ticker

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:25 AM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

Thanks for your reply?

I understand what you mean now about "fighting for our freedom".  What confuses me is, Iraq didn't directly threaten the US...lots of countires, unfortunately, hate the USA (is you ask me, for stupid reasons)...why did Bush attack Iraq and not one of those other countries?  And why attack at all?  For example, if Iraq had been responsible for the 9/11 attacks, I would understand...but they weren't...so I get confused :P

Remember, I don't really "get" war in general, so I'm not picking on the USA here.  So many innocent people are killed in any war, that I wish it would be avoided whenever possible.

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:26 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

THat was suppose to be "Thanks for your reply!"...not with a question mark, lol

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77ChevyGirl Posts : 272 Registered: 1/6/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:27 AM Go to message in response to: sweetie01494

Sweetie04194,

I'm so sorry your FH is there, and has been there before.  Although I know what it's like to have a loved one out there, I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be to have the love of your life there.  I can understand how all this is so sensitive for you. You & he are in my thoughts & prayers.

I do want to say one thing in response to something you said.  "I feel like it must be nice to walk in those shoes...judging and laying your head down safe at night while those men and women, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters...fight and DIE for your freedoms."  In speaking for myself, and the impression I've been getting from the other ladies on here, we do not take our freedoms for granted.  I have had at least one person I have known & cared about in WWII, Vietnam, The Gulf War & this war.  I know what my loved ones have gone through (the ones that did come home, that is).  I know what has been lost just so that I can have the luxuries that I have.  Personally, not a day goes by that I do not say a prayer of gratitude for all that I have, and for all that was given so that I could have this.  By no means am I passing judgment without realizing the consequences.  Again, I think the same holds true for the majority of the ladies here.

Again, you & your fiancee are in my thoughts & prayers.  I pray safety & well-being for both of you.  Take good care. 


~ Lauren - The Future Mrs. Harvey

 

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sweetie01494 Posts : 73 Registered: 2/17/08
Re: Hope this isn't controversial...
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 1:48 AM Go to message in response to: 77ChevyGirl

Birdlover-I am humble enough to say that I do not have all the answers. That is because I have a very small part of the information, like the rest of the American population;) Again, the joys of government. I do however know that there are insurgents, terrorists and people who HATE us (want to kill our soldiers) there...so ultimately that fact is validated.

Chevy-Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. It is a humbling, enlightening and strengthening experience. In regards to the laying your head down safe at night comment. That is mainly directed to those who choose not to support our soldiers and ultimately what they are doing. I am not implying that the ladies on here do not support them or take them (the soldiers) nor their freedoms for granted. I am impressed with most of the ladies opinions on this forum. The phrase also leads into the belief that you can never know what it is to walk a mile in another person's shoes...a soldier's shoes. (It is a favorite of my FH...)

I can't imagine what it was like to be a Vietnam veteran, as in my father's generation.  Additionally I am grateful that there are so many today that can make the mature distinction between supporting the war and supporting the soldiers in the war. In that way we can show that this country has evolved!


DaisypathWedding Ticker

Message was edited by: sweetie01494

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