Um, since when did this become ok?

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mrslilysolovely Posts : 2,130 Registered: 7/24/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 10:15 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Heyah!

I am Cherokee and Irish ( toss in some Scandanavian for good measure) and my hair is dark, eyes are bright green...NO ONE ever thinks I am Native - they always think I am Spanish or something...but I think that is mostly because of the region.

I find it offensive no matter what - FH's crew tend to to be offending me regularly and I see FH fall into it, guilty by association and  mirth... and I have to yank him back to reality - HELLOOOO!!!   HE is Native, too!!  Though the slurs, as far as I am aware, are not generally native slurs (mostly along the gay lines, cause they are 'outdoor workers' and a bunch of macho homophobes ) - but I am sure it is because so many of the crew are young stupid dudes....hopefully they will have someone to teach them one day! 

I have a li'l myspace comment regarding drunk driving - it's a funny one, and yet - the point is still made  "Don't drink and drive, you might hit a bump and spill it" - I, too, have heard that ridicuous and moronic statement " I drive more careful when I am buzzed" - total crap! - and it seems that a few drinks are okay to drive on - just don't get plastered and drive...ummmm NO!   You are STILL not getting it right!!!


      What if the hokey pokey really IS 

                                                           what it's all about? 


Message was edited by: lilysolovely

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SuezyQ Posts : 947 Registered: 8/4/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 11:49 AM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Great topic Birdie!

I have to agree with OP on here.  People either just don't stop to think about how they are possibly hurting other peoples feelings, or that it's wrong.  OR they just don't care because, unfortunately, that's how they were raised.  My family is from the South, and most of them are EXTREMELY racist. 

My mom raised us to not be.  That's probably one of the only things the woman has done right.

As for drinking and driving, people are stupid.  There is no way your a better driver after drinking.  NO WAY.  I've had a friend die from being in the car with a drunk driver, another friend that was in the same car has brain damage.  And I have yet another friend that was paralyzed by a drunk driver in a totally different accident.  So, yes, I know first hand how badly peoples lifes can be affected by idiots!

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Breezer80 Posts : 94 Registered: 4/14/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 1:35 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

I can't say that I know what you're talking about. I don't think anyone could make those comments and then say it's not racist. I think you're maybe hanging out with the wrong crowds? I mean, I have heard those things said, but I the person saying them would never try to qualify it as not being racist ...

Laughing Marrying my favorite little ladybug - and it's getting so close!!! Wink

Daisypath Ticker

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newsjunkie Posts : 3,417 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 2:08 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

Whoah, after reading everyone's comments I feel like I must live an incredibly sheltered life because I NEVER hear people talk like that- and I am glad of it!  I guess most of the people I know are college grads and more educated than the general population and know better than to engage in stupid slurs and stuff.  However, while I don't really hear any racial slurs I did get cornered by DH's aunt last Christmas where in a conversation that began with me telling her how beautiful I think Orlando is around Christmas (she lives in Orlando and I used to live there) she turned it into a rant about how much she hates Disney (knowing full well that I used to work there and loved it and was actually wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt at the time) mainly because they are good to the gay community and how she really hates gays in general.  Well, one of my closest friends is a gay guy and I absolutely LOVE him and told her so and told her that he was at my wedding.  You should have seen the look on her face when she realized she had been socializing with a -gasp!- gay man

As for the drunk driving thing, people who say that are idiots.  I knew a girl in college who once told me that she drove better when she was stoned.  I think my jaw just about hit the floor, I couldn't believe how stupid she was...

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LisaN Posts : 285 Registered: 6/13/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 3:02 PM Go to message in response to: newsjunkie

I agree with EVERYONE.

I hate when people stereotype everyone into one race or gender. I come from a VERY conservative area but I was never targeted in racial discrimination until I came to live here. A place where people pride themselves on being liberal.

My friend and I walked by a homeless person once and the guy asked for money and we just kept walking. When we're a good 200 yards away he yells at me saying "that's right, you're Asian, you don't see us white people through your squinty eyes". My friend (she's white) totally stood up to me and yells at the guy "f-you!". Even thinking about it to this day hurts.

People don't realize that words speak just as loudly as actions.

As for drunk driving, when I read all of these posts I didn't realize how massive of a scale drunken driving has hurt people. I have lost 5 friends from drunk driving either they were drunk driving or were hit by drunk drivers. One person JUST got his sentence for vehicular homicide (killing one of my friends and 4 other people) and fleeing from the police for 4 years.

Newsjunkie-
To add to your stoned excuses, when people say "I drive better when I'm stoned cause I'm more alert about what's going on cause I drive slower." How many times have I heard that, I can't count.

~Lisa

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KitKatBar Posts : 983 Registered: 7/23/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 3:04 PM Go to message in response to: newsjunkie

I get frustrated with a lot of the people up here. I've heard some really stupid things said since I've been in this area. I heard a guy at Wendy's today going on and on about the Jewish people and how they were going to burn in hell if they didn't convert, and the lady I was with is Jewish and we just sorta rolled our eyes. Why exert the energy, ya know? The religious intolerance in this general area is pretty bad.


 

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BB84 Posts : 388 Registered: 3/31/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 3:09 PM Go to message in response to: LisaN

Growing up in Kentucky public schools, we were taught that being racist was the most ignorant, horrible thing you could be.  Still, I heard slurs from my grandparents and other random people.  Regardless, I assumed that only old people and rednecks were still racist and that the problem of racism was going away.  Boy, was I wrong.  I am working on my Master's in teaching right now, and racism is a huge issue in a city with a large immigrant and growing African American population.  We are not even close to a melting pot.  I even venture to say that the race problem is getting worse.  Its so sad to see black students afraid to do well in school because that will mean they are a 'sell out' or use appropriate grammar because it is 'white.'  All of this perpetuates the cycle.  Our schools are more segregated than ever.

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lensappeal Posts : 80 Registered: 9/4/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 3:36 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

while you all make very good points, I have to say that I find this all a little... biased?
where are you all from? Regionally, that is.I'm from Oklahoma. Cherokee County. I'm a "white" Native (1/8 Cherokee, 1/32 Souix, the rest of me is a heinz of western european) , but not raised that way. I powwowed a little in my younger years, rodeoed, too, but that is a different topic altogether.

Birdlover, it is important to realize that in all of these statements you are quoting, there is truth. Not always a lot, but there is still some Truth is in all stereotypes. Its in sweeping generalizations where people truly err.Now, Asian ethnicity, they have slanted eyes. Fact. That they shouldn't drive.... error.
Someone who would make the last statement you listed is most likely speaking from a negative experience, or quoting from another's. That doesn't make it right, but it does pay to know the background and context.
'They should get the hell out of my country'. I think the native populace has said that numerous times. But, presently, we do have border rules, same as any other country. If they are here illegally, as many in MY area are, there do need to be consequences, not benefits. This doesn't have to be deportation, though.

In defense of the individual saying "those indians causing problems", I can empathize with them. A lot. Because of the new chief of the Keetowah tribe (who himself is only partial) taking offense (something no native student at my college did) to our name, my freshman year our name was changed, from Redmen to Riverhawk. We were strong armed into changing because of the wonderful NCAA telling us we couldn't participate in games or tourneys which are needed for our players to attend college. Note: our Former chief had no problem with the name, and we took great pride in it.
Also, tomorrow marks the Centennial of OK. its a declared holiday, just for this year. Several Native people (not all, but many) are protesting this, with signs and everything else. While in their rights, I find this sad. Its just another day off of work or classes, it won't be celebrated again. We aren't celebrating the land run, the annexation of the Native populace, etc, we are celebrating our statehood.
However, that statement could be said for any ethnic grouping. Extremists are never good. Hitler, Castro, Malcolm X, Ghost Dancer (danced and predicted ethnic genocide of the white "race"), etc, all promoted disruption and walls against races.

I'll be the first to admit that some Native's are lazy drunks, just as soon as I will that some are the most hardworking and family oriented folks ever.I have no issue with that. Both are stereotypes, but which one is bad? Truly, both. Same can be said for any race.
Also, a lot of statements are true based on region and socioeconomic level.

just to flip it a bit, how many of you laugh when a typical "white boy can't jump/dance/etc" statement is made (I can see all of you laughing... hmm.
That is a racist statement. Not a hateful rascist statement, but still is.
Is there truth in that? for some.

Lochnessie, its not anti-immigrant rhetoric, its anti-illegal immigration.

question: is it only racist stereotypes, or all? what about regional stereotypes?

exp. I hated my experience NY (pardon asked from those residing in that location) People I met, waited by, etc, were intensely rude. Not that they didn't smile, call you darlin', whatever, that is cultural. They were just plain rude. I don't think that ALL NY's are rude, but that as a general grouping, I find it fit its stereotype during my experience.

Same as down here, in OK. Yes, we have Natives. No, there are no teepees. Yes there are ranches. No, there is running water.
and yes, we will have five minute conversations with the greeter at Walmart, because that is what you do.

***

LisaNaomi, that was a horrible experience. I know it might not help you any, but remember, hurt people hurt people. He's homeless, he's hurting. He'd had a long day. I'm not excusing his actions, but explaining. In my Social Work classes, that is a major part of what we learn. Before we respond/react, try to take into consideration where that person's actions are coming to.

I know this isn't the same, but when I first went into work at the gov't sub. housing, I had people telling me that I was just another rich (compared to the residents) white girl trying to feel better about herself. That was a stereotype that was hard to get past, and it hurt for those I was working with to feel that way. still does, even though I've proven to them that that is not the case.

Agape.

When is my wedding

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tweatie2 Posts : 286 Registered: 10/25/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 3:50 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

It's not ok.  Those things are hurtful and not true. 

I am going to add something to your list.  I was getting some breakfast yesterday morning and heard a couple of guys behind me talking.  One of them went on to brag about how he hit the mother of his child in front of the child.  I was thinking in my head, "when did that become ok?"  I don't know what is going on with people these days.

 


Soon to be Mrs. Hurts!!

 

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LisaN Posts : 285 Registered: 6/13/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 4:33 PM Go to message in response to: lensappeal

lensappeal- While I agree with you that he's hurting, he didn't have to express himself like that. While I also understand that you're trying to explain his actions, it still doesn't make it right. There are other ways of hurting people by not getting out the racial cards. He could've left out the racial comments and said "fine, don't listen to me".

Along the other lines you have said, yes, SOME stereotypes are true but it's not about that. It's about how people use them against other people. There are things that people say ie: "white people can't dance" that people laugh at which escalates into other false accusations "asian people can't drive".

It's the people who drive racial statements to the next level. All of us here at Brides.com are making a stand by not caving into it, repeating these false or true hurtful statements. Good job ladies, keep up the hard/good work.

~Lisa

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 4:35 PM Go to message in response to: Bride2008

lensappeal , I can't help but feel that you are defending these statements in a way.  " because there is some truth to them".  That is NOT a defense.  Sure, some Natives are lazy drunks.  So are some whites, black, asians, etc.  But that would NOT make it okay to say that "asians are lazy drunks".

To whoever told me I was hanging out with the wrong crowd, and to the person who said that maybe they didn't hear these things because they hung out with mostly educated people: I have been hearing these things at my college!  Usually in the computer lab, so they are not my friends, but I can't believe it!

When people say stuff like these things to me, though, I do my best to make them feel like idiots :P

The one thing that I, myself, am guilty of is saying " that's so gay/that's retarded".  I admit it.  I have mentally challenged people in my family, and I do not take offense to ' that's so retarded", so I guess that's why I say it.  As for " that's so gay".  I went to an Arts school with a high gay population.  My gay friends said that this statment didn't bother them, because " People aren't saying 'that's so negatively homosexual', they're using it in a different context".  So I was surprised at how many people now take offense to it when my own gay friends had no problem with it!
Still, I try to avoid saying these things now.

Yes, some of the nearby Natives are causing problems, but that is no reason to group all Natives together as being trouble makers.  The best? I have heard people say "If Natives don't like it here, get out of my country".  WHAT THE HELL?  If you want to be technical, YOU get our of THEIR country.

Gah

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BirdLover Posts : 2,834 Registered: 3/30/06
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 4:37 PM Go to message in response to: BirdLover

While I'm ranting, I think it's oppressive for schools to disallow "Christmas"  activities because it's religiuos.  If you told jewish students that they couldn't discuss Hannukah, you'd be called a bigot.  So why is it okay to discriminate against a major religion?

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lensappeal Posts : 80 Registered: 9/4/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 4:59 PM Go to message in response to: LisaN

I don't believe I was excusing him, just saying it was more than you are Asian.

And I never said all stereotypes ARE truth, but that they all hold some amount of truth, however small.

And I was using the white man can't ____ to make a point. Racism isn't just about a "minority". It spans everything. (although with dealing a "white"individual, its called reverse racism. That is such a lame term.)

Also, There is no escalation, the twain are the same. Both can be said in jest, or in "hate". It just offends higher when it is our own color/race/culture.


When is my wedding

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MrsWilliams2008 Posts : 1,431 Registered: 7/19/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 6:29 PM Go to message in response to: Bride2008

Awesome topic to post!

We as PEOPLE need to get it together and learn to live with and love one another! 


 http://www.theknot.com/ourwedding/RyAnne Stafford&RobertWilliams, Jr

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DAS824 Posts : 509 Registered: 8/24/07
Re: Um, since when did this become ok?
Posted: Nov 15, 2007 11:33 PM Go to message in response to: MrsWilliams2008

Just my 2 cents...I believe that all racist/discriminating/prejudice comments are uncalled for. And I completely understand the topic that has been brought up here. I am Irish/Czech mostly and don't look like your average Irish person (dark curly hair, hazel eyes, darker skin tone). I have been told, for example, that I look Native, Puerto Rican, Mexican...However none of that matters because even if someone says I look like a certain race/ethnicity, they still think it'd be okay to bad mouth a different group in front of me. Like knowing my supposed heritage makes it okay to make of someone else's? Also, FH is Dominican, but very dark skinned (most people here, Nebraska, just assume he's black). Trust me, some of the looks we get are not pretty. Back where he's from though, NY, we're treated just the same as any other couple. Whoever had the bad experience with NY people, I would take a chance and say that maybe you just went with the stereotype that all New Yorkers are difficult, rude and only chose to see that side of people.

I would like to note that just because someone may be educated does not mean they don't harbor ill-will toward others. There are many instances I have heard people bad mouth another group on campus. I'm willing to bet that a number of lawyers, doctors, etc., also have racist beliefs. Being educated doesn't change a person's core understanding of the world. Just betters them book-wise.

In hope for my children, I'm trying my damnedest to make some changes. I already started with my family years ago when FH and I started dating, now it's time to spread the word.

 


Shauna C...I can't wait!!

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